Hidden Valley

I love what the CCC does and think they are a great organization. As I said earlier I just think it's funny how they go about things sometimes, but that's just the mentality up there. I am completely aware of that and understand it...well most the time.

If you don't like the way the CCC does things, I wonder if there is anything you could do to change it? I'm really appreciative that people are willing to volunteer their time to secure more places for me to climb. I donated money for the purchase of Hidden Valley on top of my annual membership to the CCC. Thanks CCC!

I would encourage visitors to make sure they purchase the required permit. Land managers will warm up to climbers if they believe climbers are willing to do their part to protect something we all love; the outdoors.

Be Esperanza wrote:If you don't like the way the CCC does things, I wonder if there is anything you could do to change it? I'm really appreciative that people are willing to volunteer their time to secure more places for me to climb. I donated money for the purchase of Hidden Valley on top of my annual membership to the CCC. Thanks CCC! I would encourage visitors to make sure they purchase the required permit. Land managers will warm up to climbers if they believe climbers are willing to do their part to protect something we all love; the outdoors.

I appreciate the CCC as well, and am a member who donated to the HV fund. I also would suspect that Brian and the CCC folks appreciate feedback and opinions about their policies from the climbing community. (correct me if I'm wrong Brian)

Constructive comments and criticisms are always welcome. The climbing community in the Carolinas is diverse and has deep roots as well as a lot of new faces. Climbing in general is growing and changing rapidly and that creates tension that we have to work through. When it comes down to it the CCC board is just a bunch of volunteer climbers who try to do our best, but we know that not everyone is going to agree with every decision. Such is life and an open exchange of solution-oriented ideas is good for everyone.

Brian Payst wrote:Constructive comments and criticisms are always welcome. The climbing community in the Carolinas is diverse and has deep roots as well as a lot of new faces. Climbing in general is growing and changing rapidly and that creates tension that we have to work through. When it comes down to it the CCC board is just a bunch of volunteer climbers who try to do our best, but we know that not everyone is going to agree with every decision. Such is life and an open exchange of solution-oriented ideas is good for everyone.

Amen to that, thanks for making the hard decisions.

I spoke to Gus recently about the potential of a guidebook for Hidden Valley. I love guidebooks, which is why I started a publishing company to write and release them. That said, I would hate for a book or online postings of routes lead to over crowding of the cliff, or lead to parking issues. When we park to climb at Hidden Valley, it is not on CCC owned land and there is potential for too many vehicles there to cause issues. That said, there is ample parking down the road by the lake a mile down the road... will folks be understanding enough to see that the parking lot is full and make the decision to not park all over the place, instead walk an extra mile? Time will tell.

In the conversation with Gus, I told him I would be interested in helping him publish through Ground Up Publishing if the parking and/ or crowding issue seem negligible. I believe only time will tell with that as well. In the meantime, updates on how things are shaping up there would help via this forum or CCC forum. I have heard of many folks chipping in and replacing bolts already and that is fantastic! I don't think anyone has left dog shit in any mail boxes recently either, so that is great too.

In response to a gripe about the CCC board deciding it would be best to keep information off-line for now... if you have read the above comments, hopefully you understand the consensus of the CCC. The CCC does not want to limit who climbs at Hidden Valley by limiting beta. Most of the CCC board (myself included) have hardly even gotten a chance to climb at the cliff. Instead we've volunteered hours to drum up support to open it up, sacrificing time away from climbing and our families and personal work to open a cliff that we may be able to enjoy a few times personally. This is not for personal gain or only for people "in the know".

To Ryan7Crew: The CCC are just as "in the know" as anyone else about the route ratings, and hold by hold meanderings. Your comments seem misguided. If others are feeling the same about the situation as you, hopefully this thread has been enlightening. Also, not knowing anything about an area and climbing there is a fun practice. I try to do it as often as possible. My advice is, you should too if you don't already. Note that this comment is filled with an adventurous spirit, not an elitist spirit.

To Wblack: Thanks for the constructive feedback and for looking at HV from all sides of the rock. Many of the ideas you brought up had been discussed by the CCC board and Access Fund members in a meeting when we first bought the cliff. Ultimately, we collectively decided keeping the area low key initially would be the best option to ensure we kept our neighbors (AKA parking lot owners) happy. Even though posting route specific beta on HV on Mountain Project or the CCC site could potentially bring in more cash for the CCC, ensuring continued access to the cliff seemed paramount.

Hey guys, sorry I was out of the loop for a while, I was out being adventurous. Actually, I take great enjoyment in telling my climbing partners I'm now being more adventurous because people on the internet who have no idea who I am are saying I'm not adventurous enough. Actually I think it scares the hell out of them hahaha
But ya'll, well most of ya'll, have obviously misinterpreted my remarks. I could care less if the are ever gets a guide. Sure it's convenient, but I agree with you it takes some of the fun out of things.
Actually, the whole point of my posts, was only to point out how hilarious it is that the CCC is essentially censuring information about a climbing area that they bought to ensure access to all. And the only way they saw to ensure access to all is to limit access to all with limited beta. Its just funny, that's all.
Ya'll have fun out there, I'm going on an adventure!

Ryan7crew wrote:Hey guys, sorry I was out of the loop for a while, I was out being adventurous. Actually, I take great enjoyment in telling my climbing partners I'm now being more adventurous because people on the internet who have no idea who I am are saying I'm not adventurous enough. Actually I think it scares the hell out of them hahaha But ya'll, well most of ya'll, have obviously misinterpreted my remarks. I could care less if the are ever gets a guide. Sure it's convenient, but I agree with you it takes some of the fun out of things. Actually, the whole point of my posts, was only to point out how hilarious it is that the CCC is essentially censuring information about a climbing area that they bought to ensure access to all. And the only way they saw to ensure access to all is to limit access to all with limited beta. Its just funny, that's all. Ya'll have fun out there, I'm going on an adventure!

If that were true we could all share in your amusement, but it's not. We opened the cliff as quickly as we could - the same day we took ownership and a guide has not yet been completed for it. You can conspiracy theory this all you want, but as the guy who actually signed the closing documents I think my first-hand knowledge trumps your trolling. Access is access, you can choose to go without a guide or wait for one to come out, doesn't mean you can't go to the cliff now anytime you want (unlike for the past 10 years).

As I recall, the older versions of the Horst / Falcon book ( amazon.com/Climbing-Virgini… ) included Hidden Valley. I don't see it mentioned yet in this thread, but it sounds like what you are looking for. I think the most recent copy might have dropped it, but it was only released last year, so you can probably drum up an old copy to check.

it looks like it only gets a page of coverage. barnesandnoble.com/w/rock-c…

I have the Horst book and it does not contain any information on Hidden Valley routes. It does have a paragraph about it, stating that there are 200 or so sport climbs and that they were left out at the request of the land owner.

Well, I've talked to nothing but friendly and open people about Hidden Valley. From someone who's been climbing there about 4 days a week, suck it up sunshine. It's not that hard to walk around and figure it out. If you don't want to launch up a short, well bolted sport climb without having the spray then you need to grow a pair and get used to it. I've extended the offer to show you what I know, and share any information about the place I can scrape together and got nothing but crickets. If you don't want to learn anything and go adventuring then don't, just don't bother the rest of us by complaining about it.

In this day and age all sense of all adventure is gone. Get out to a new area. Climb the routes or at least try. Grade the ones you have sent. Give them a name and make your own damn guide. If you can't send one then name it "proj". All the work of bolting has been done. You have your own log of infomation for yourself and friends. Who gives a rat's ass about the FA.

I know I'm opening a long dead thread but... how about some of us put money into replacing those lead bolts? I for some whatever reason feel better about donating my time and work rather than just donating cash. Seems like a lot of those bolts are at their life span. Plus I hate seeing shiny new anchors with rusty old lead bolts all over the place. Oh and I'm not a member of the CCC just a good old nc country boy who knows how to drill and wrench with a lot of stainless hardware.

Swamp Cookie wrote:In this day and age all sense of all adventure is gone. Get out to a new area. Climb the routes or at least try. Grade the ones you have sent. Give them a name and make your own damn guide. If you can't send one then name it "proj". All the work of bolting has been done. You have your own log of infomation for yourself and friends. Who gives a rat's ass about the FA.

Swamp, I think we all recognize that a "sense of adventure" entails not using guidebooks and wiping our ass with moss but there is a happy medium... recognize what site you are on- people don't use these forums to be told HOW to climb..

Just stay in the gym kennedy. Everything is neatly graded and color coded. A proposal like my previous statement.

BigCountry wrote:I know I'm opening a long dead thread but... how about some of us put money into replacing those lead bolts? I for some whatever reason feel better about donating my time and work rather than just donating cash. Seems like a lot of those bolts are at their life span. Plus I hate seeing shiny new anchors with rusty old lead bolts all over the place. Oh and I'm not a member of the CCC just a good old nc country boy who knows how to drill and wrench with a lot of stainless hardware.

There have already been a number of lead bolts replaced and that work continues. Mike Trew in Boone is coordinating the work. Interestingly, a lot of the hardware there isn't as bad as it appears on the outside. There is surface rust, but when you pull the actual bolt it's in surprisingly good shape. We're using ClimbTech Legacy bolts to make it easier to maintain hardware over the long-term.

Since this started as a guidebook thread at some point, worth noting that there is one now available for pre-order: grounduppublishing.com/?p=989

Brian,
That's really good to hear about the bolts, both that they are beginning to be replaced and that they aren't as bad as they look.
I've been up there several times over the past few months trying out whatever route looks good and it really makes me need to say thanks. That place is amazing to have in the area. I'm so glad it was purchased by and for climbers.

Thanks Eric. Buy Anthony Love a beer next time you see him up there. He has done a lot of the hard work replacing bolts and anchors. I should add that with any fixed protection you should use your own judgement of the quality and back it up where possible. You should start to see more new lead bolts, particularly on the more well traveled routes. It's a fun crag and a great one to have available again.

Old and new bolts at Hidden Valley

Here is an image of a few of the older drop in bolts taken off of "Carriage Ride Thru Central Park", 5.10a, at Hidden Valley. I had replaced these with Climbtech's legacy bolts. The right hand bolt is the Climbtech Legacy bolt that Carolina Climbers Coalition volunteers are using to replace. If you have the knowledge and the means, contact them and chip in.

The majority of the bolts Gus Glitch, Koma and others had placed in Hidden Valley appear to be these drop in anchors. The smaller bolt that you see in the pic gets screwed into a sleeve that is first pounded into the rock. The bolts and sleeves that most folks have taken out have reportedly been in pretty good shape despite the surface rust (the ones pictured here were in decent shape as well, despite looking small, the sleeve in the rock was solid on all of them). I still like the stainless legacy much better though! Thank you yet again CCC.

As Brian had noted above, Gus Glitch and Ground Up Publishing are working on a guidebook. I am helping him with photos and layout. Pre-orders are available now. It will likely be done by the summer, and so far, it has been a real pleasure working on it with Gus and others who love Hidden Valley. If you have any pics or grade discrepancies from previous hand written guides out there, I am all ears! Thank you to all of those who have helped so far- we are 6 months in now and it is coming together much quicker than anticipated.