Is leaving your dog at the base of multipitch climb really Animal abuse?

No one ever has a problem with Dogs and awesome, attentive dog owners! Don't be a shitty pet owner, even if it's inconvenient.

Off Leash is not the answer! Uncontrolled off leash pets can definitely be a significant impact on local wildlife. Much more than humans climbing, an off leash dog just chasing wildlife is a huge added stress, not even to think of animals actually caught. In winter, Calving season or other especially sensitive times, adding another predator (whether real or perceived) can make a big difference. Sheep or deer or reptiles or whatever can usually go away from mostly stationary climbers, but it's big difference if they're being chased.
I used to work at a wildlife rehab and the number of injured wild animals from pets is staggering. Hard to believe sometimes, but even a small cut from an encounter with your dog can be a long slow shitty death to a wild animal that's not going to be treated.

I'm sure I'll get eaten alive in the responses, but hopefully someone will think twice about letting doggies run free as a solution. Don't be a shitty pet owner, even if it's inconvenient.

Bio80 wrote:Don't be a shitty pet owner, even if it's inconvenient.

^This.

If you can't accept the fact that owning a dog will place some limitations on your lifestyle, then don't get one. Plain and simple. Same as for having children.

I would attempt to add, if you can't accept other things happening around you that don't suit your ideal notions of interaction and existence, move to the center of nowhere and cease to interact.

Jesus, maybe it should be common sense to leave the pooch when on multipitch, but it isn't, apparently. I really wouldn't anticipate being satisfied with all dog owner behavior anytime soon. Or with all people's behavior, or the color of the grass, or whatever.

i can't believe this is an issue. If my dog wasn't too old and out of shape you can be damned sure my dog will be with me at the crag (assuming it is allowed). But only if it single pitch only. leaving your dog unattended while your on a multi-pitch is irresponsible and i would feel bad for my dog despite knowing that she would be perfectly fine. Dogs are for single pitch only, unless your dog is such a bad ass she can climb with you. and if you're going to take your dog, you better have a third person keep an eye out of her, regardless of how well she is trained. even if you know she won't do anything, having a person there with your dog will help people who are scared or uncomfortable around dogs. and the argument that these people need to chill out is invalid: I'm a huge dog lover but larger dogs still make me nervous because I was bitten by a large dog when i was younger.

Oh look another MP - "Project my opinion across the internet forum, and argue it as morally/ethically correct, when I am not the land owner/ legislating body & it's actually none of my fucking business" thread. Bravo Page 6!

Maybe we can just take numbers from here on out:
#1 If you want to own a dog, don't climb.
#2 Don't ever bring you dog to the crag it bothers me.
#3 Don't ever bring you dog to the crag it bothers the dog.
#4 Leash your dog up when you do a multi - it's better for me.
#5 Let your dog run when you do a multi - it's better for the dog.
#6 About time we taught the canine species how to climb.

#6 since my dogs are always available to climb when I am

Fuck the tournament, and fuck you Walter!

This thread is reminding me why I like dogs better than people....

So all you dog owners... do you pay someone to watch your dog every day while you are at work? Do you not work and watch your dog all day long? Do you leave your dogs at home while you are at work?

I don't understand why it is such a big deal to leave your dog at home by itself for 1 day and go climbing... the dog will be fine!

I personally love animals and don't mind seeing them at the crag but i do have people I climb with who feel the need to bring the dog with them every single time and it is annoying and cuts down on how many routes we get to climb for the day. Just leave it at home it will be fine by itself for a day.

Cornelius Jefferson wrote: #7 Bring the dog along to protect your Cragbaby while you're crushing multipitch

#8 Bring the dog to protect the boombox pumping sick dubstep and the baby.

ViperScale wrote:So all you dog owners... do you pay someone to watch your dog every day while you are at work? Do you not work and watch your dog all day long? Do you leave your dogs at home while you are at work? I don't understand why it is such a big deal to leave your dog at home by itself for 1 day and go climbing... the dog will be fine!

Do you not understand the amount of jackass-edness in your expectations?

Most people work 5 days a week and guess what, climb every day they can (both weekend days). Most people hate that they have to leave their dog at home even when they work, but its a sacrifice of being a dog owner.

Your assuming you have the right to tell anyone what to do with their dog. Your assuming someone's climbing days are under 8 hrs door to door. You're assuming that people only bring their dog climbing as a means of practicality, and not because they actually want to.

ViperScale wrote:I don't understand why it is such a big deal

for anyone, to shut their damn mouth and deal with the world as it comes to them.

I don't understand why when I come home from work each night their's not a gold fountain pouring out of my ceiling. Woe is me.

Dog owner here.

I let my dog run free at obscure crags with friends and pets i know that are friendly and get along. Mind you there is always someone on the ground to take care of the dog should something happen. If by chance someone new comes along, he goes on a leash tended by myself, wife or friend.

He will always be on a leash at a busy crag. Either myself, my wife or my good friend will be with him at all times.

If on long multi pitch with no one to tend to him, he stays home.

I would not leash him to a tree unattended for any amount of time, Unless it is a very short toprope with nearly zero chance of him getting hit by a rock or eaten by mosquitos, etc.

I don't care what you do. Everybody's situation is different. Just be prepared to accept responsibility for your actions.

Just remember if you leave your dog at the base of a 500ft multipitch climb and i find it on a leash i will take it off (because leaving it on a leash could threaten it's life).

If your dog that you think is kind and safe threatens me you will find it in a bag dead when you finish your multipitch.

Once again I love animals and have only had issues with one dog growing up who left me in the hospital for a day from a bite on the back of my head (no i was not harassing it), but me and my human friends will always take priority over your dog you left at the bottom by itself if push comes to shove.

Was it once 'Rule #1: don't be a jerk?' Instead of Guideline #1?

Tom Sherman wrote:Most people work 5 days a week and guess what, climb every day they can (both weekend days). Most people hate that they have to leave their dog at home even when they work, but its a sacrifice of being a dog owner.

Actually, it's a sacrifice that the dog has to make because of its owner's lifestyle. Just remember, the dog didn't have any say in choosing its owner's climbing habit!

At some point, we all have to consider carefully what our priorities are.

Alexey Dynkin wrote: Actually, it's a sacrifice that the dog has to make because of its owner's lifestyle. Just remember, the dog didn't have any say in choosing its owner's climbing habit! At some point, we all have to consider carefully what our priorities are.

The fact that you are keeping a animal that should be in the wild as a pet is probably an issue to begin with. Given alot of them have had the wild breed out of them but still.

Hard to say which they prefer because we can't really talk to them and ask them if they would prefer to survive in the woods by themself with tons of nature to explore on their own or if they want to be locked up in a house every day.

I have walked through the land fields in Mexico where people live. I think our concept of our pets being happy probably relates. I was told by some of hte parents who live in these places that their kids and even alot of the people who have never left the land fields are perfectly happy living there because they don't know better. Alot of the fathers will not let their kids leave the land field for a day because as long as they don't see what is better out there they will be perfectly happy living there their entire life. However if they leave for a day they will never be happy and have a horrible life living there.

You know that is an interesting concept, people in 3rd world countries who kids in this country see pictures of think it would be horrible to live like that. But i think the kids in the US are more miserable because they see rich people and are never happy with what they have.

The same probably could apply to our pets.

ViperScale wrote: The fact that you are keeping a animal that should be in the wild as a pet is probably an issue to begin with. Given alot of them have had the wild breed out of them but still. Hard to say which they prefer because we can't really talk to them and ask them if they would prefer to survive in the woods by themself with tons of nature to explore on their own or if they want to be locked up in a house every day.

I'm not trying to steer this into some abstract philosophical discussion on the origins and justifications of domesticating animals for our pleasure. I'm talking from the standpoint of simple responsibility: when you decide to adopt an animal, it becomes dependent on you, and you're responsible for it! It so happens that different animals have different needs...yes, a cat is usually perfectly content lounging around the house all day, but a dog isn't! And yes, that means that sometimes what you would rather do is going to have to take a back seat! Again, people who cannot accept this burden should just not get a dog, because BOTH dog and owner will be worse off in the long run.

Edit: just saw your additional comment. Again, it's an interesting theoretical discussion, but a long one, and only tangentially related to the OP topic.

Alexey Dynkin wrote: Actually...

Actually it's a consequence to the dog, not a sacrifice it makes, because dogs, like all pets, are subservient to their masters' will. I raise my dog how I want, do with my dog what I want, and that's its' life and mine, as I so choose. Now you already mentioned doggie-daycare, so if you're one of these think a dog is your kindred- types, you should probably go argue that in the courts, maybe fight for dogs' higher education. And as for carefully considering one's priorities, let me know how that goes for your beef patties.

ViperScale - to the same as above, if you think messing with other people's belongings is cool, we all wish the same unto you. If you really think you're doing the world a favor walking around unleashing dogs, then I hope you go to hell, seriously. Because your a "a dog could be endangered on leash" fallacy, is countered to a million arguments I need not explain. "A dog could run off and be lost/ killed.... off leash" "A dog could hurt or bother someone/ something else... off leash"

Tom Sherman wrote:ViperScale - to the same as above, if you think messing with other people's belongings is cool, we all wish the same unto you. If you really think you're doing the world a favor walking around unleashing dogs, then I hope you go to hell, seriously. Because your a "a dog could be endangered on leash" fallacy, is countered to a million arguments I need not explain. "A dog could run off and be lost/ killed.... off leash" "A dog could hurt or bother someone/ something else... off leash"

And i guess you have never walked up to a pet who is nearly choking on it's leash because someone left it there and it got tangled in it. I know by law in some areas you can't leave a dog off a leash but I much prefer the crags where they don't have to be and you have a dog bouncing off the wall waiting for someone to go throw a ball as far in the woods as possible for them to go try to find it.

Tom Sherman wrote: Actually it's a consequence to the dog, not a sacrifice it makes, because dogs, like all pets, are subservient to their masters' will. I raise my dog how I want, do with my dog what I want, and that's its' life and mine, as I so choose.

Well, I can't argue with that. However, if you choose to exercise said dominance without a corresponding sense of responsibility, then don't be surprised when you get judged for it. By the way, I meant "you" figuratively, both here and earlier, as I had no intention of making it personal.

Tom Sherman wrote: Now you already mentioned doggie-daycare, so if you're one of these think a dog is your kindred- types, you should probably go argue that in the courts, maybe fight for dogs' higher education. And as for carefully considering one's priorities, let me know how that goes for your beef patties.

Now you're just being a d*&k in place of having an actual argument. No, I don't take my dog to doggie daycare because I think she's human; on the contrary, I take her there because she's...well...a DOG, i.e. a social animal deserves to interact with other dogs, instead of being cooped up all day at home. I'm also not a fan of anthropomorphizing, but if you don't think that there is a difference between a content and discontent dog, then you really don't know anything about dogs. And you know what - if your dog is truly OK being at home, then by all means, leave it! Unlike you I'm not actually judging the individual decisions you make for your animal - only the overall idea that your hobbies come first 100% and the animal that you've chosen to have depend on you just has to deal.