Epic Rescue

Haven't read everything at the moment but will add ..,

Calling SAR should take a little thought and care in judgement. The lives of volunteers are being interrupted and put at risk.

The decision to call naturally resides with the party immersed in the circumstances. It can be questioned - sure. But, in this case, no one outside has enough knowledge to say that the wrong decision was made.

P.S. If the party had waited for SAR at the top of Mescalito, it'd be interesting to hear from SAR folks how long they would have had to wait and what manner of extraction would have taken place.

My understanding is that , once SAR-aid has been requested, the party has very little choice in what happens after that

Christopher Gibson wrote:I am just going to add some additional info in order to add some clarifications to the discussion so we can all learn, not to justify any of the decisions we made. Most of the points that have been made by everyone are very valid points when you are reading about what happened and they do add to the learning process no matter how insensitive they may seem. I am a regular user of MP, I buy and sell things here, I contribute to discussions on a regular basis and I have even helped out climbers I didn't know that were in need here and I understand the need to know what happened and to debate about it. The others are not regular users so that is why I am writing this. The piece that came out was a marginally set nut and the leader knew it was marginal, he climbed up a little further with the nut at about his feet (so about three feet of rope out) to place something more solid, he did not have optimal body position and was trying to reposition from a bent arm grip to a straight arm grip and lost the hand and fell approx 20-25 feet to a ledge, at the time of the fall the leader was approx 120' from the belay. Here is something important that I did not consider as this was taking place, from the belayer's perspective, he was out of sight about 120' away and the wind had kicked up considerably, so it felt as if he was looking for a place to set up the belay, when the fall happened it never registered on the rope as a fall, the belayer noticed after sitting at the belay for awhile about 20' of rope sliding done the face towards the stack of rope, which was pulled back through the ATC and restacked, the thought was he walked up then walked back down to set up the belay, the ninth pitch is described as a series of ledges. But what had actually taken place was the leader fell, the nut came out and he hit the ledge and the slack slide down back towards the belay, its not as if the nut slowed the leader down any and caught the rope and engaged the belayer, he fell, the nut came out and he hit the ledge. Learning experience for me here is that if the climber is out of sight a fall can happen that never engages the rope. The belayer sat at the belay for awhile not knowing what was going on above, not seeing anything and not hearing anything. The belayer decided not to escape the belay and go up to see what was going on and after post incident analysis, yes it would have been acceptable to that since the climber was injured and did need assistance and the belayer was trained and experienced in doing it, however in the moment the belayer did not think or know they had an injured climber on the rope, he would have been doing it out of curiosity, and he knew there were two competent people above, what he did not know was what was up there, is there a belay, is there somewhere to set up a belay, what is the rope attached to and so on, the decision was made to stay at the belay. The injuries and the decision to self rescue versus calling for rescue, the injured was trained in wilderness medicine and first aid and is an AMGA SPI Certified Guide and guides on a regular basis as well as another team member being NOLS WFR trained and AMGA SPI Certified Guide as well and working on his Rock Guide prerequisites, is that enough training to make that type of decision? Not sure, but we had to decide something. We were able to asses with relative certainty that the arm/elbow was broken and the ribs were broken, we did not know for certain that the vertebrae was fractured, the injured made the call to self rescue. We decided the best option was to go down the same way we came up, the info for the normal descent was very vague and even though we started the day with plenty of time to finish the route and descend with daylight, this descent was going to take place at night. We went from a group of middle aged guys on a climbing trip on a perfect day for climbing and everything was going great the first team topped out and the second team was on the ninth of ten pitches that then turned potentially deadly in less than a second. Some of the decisions we were trained to make and some we had to make on the fly. Other than the actual self rescue, here are some other things to be considered. The injured was at the hospital for about 4-5 hours and then released, even though he was treated at shock trauma he was in very bad shape, now he was in our care, we were fortunate enough to have a hotel room to go back to but we still had very important decisions to make, medications, he left with a script in hand, not pain meds in hand, he couldn't walk so having access to a car and wheel chair was important, we flew to Vegas from Texas, how are we going to get him home, fly back, drive back, who is going to fly back with him, can the airline be of any assistance? is there any one back home to receive him, he has pain meds that lasts thru Sunday, what about Monday? We self rescued out of that situation, was it the right decision? should we have called SAR? I can't answer that question, in hind sight would we make the same decision? Probably Yes. If you want to know what part I played, I was the injured climbers belayer, AMGA Certified SPI, WFR and working on my Rock Guide prerequisites, hence one of the reasons I was on the route. What was it like to go through this type of event for those that haven't? If you ever watched the show "I Survived" then you know. Watching and participating in one of your friends worsts life changing moments is sureal, its hard to fathom how he was able to descent almost 1000' of steep rock and hike out three miles in rugged terrain under his own power in that condition, the human body and mind is amazing. This happened on Weds, and still processing right now, hard to sleep, I brought the injured back to Dallas, two are still in Vegas, while the three of us were together (un-injured) we talked about it, but when your alone its kind of consuming at the moment.

Thanks for the clarification, sounds like you guys did have some training and made solid decisions.

The input from Jim R is pretty interesting, he has a much higher degree of medical training than myself and probably most people on here.

The current WFR standard for a possible spinal injury is that any pain or tenderness of the spine should result in continued immobilization of the spine.

I know that a lot of data is being examined for both front country and back country protocol. It sounds like that protocol could change in the near future.

Here are the Wilderness Medical Society Guidelines for Spine Immobilization for those who are interested in seeing some of the data behind the recommendations.
wemjournal.org/article/S108…(14)00272-5/abstract
Kind regards,
Joe

.
Christopher,

Did you get your gear back?

Christopher Gibson wrote:Just the ropes, not really to concerned, if it tirns up gteat if not no biggie, the upper pitches don't get much action and the weather there hasn't been great I don't think for going past four pitches.

Christopher,

I climbed the 1st 4 yesterday and there were packs at the bottom of a team going to the top. I thought it was an odd route choice for the day since the weather forecast was pretty sketchy, but after seeing this thread it makes sense. They returned to the base as we were rappelling.

So someone does have your gear, hopefully it is their intent to return it.

Cheers,

Doug

Jim R wrote:MOI doesn't predict spinal cord injury.

Definitely disagree with that statement. 25 foot fall landing on a ledge screams MOI for spinal injury.

I think these guys did a great job at self-rescue and I think they did a lot of things right. Big Kudos from me. however I think they missed this: I think they should have cleared his spine first. Luckily everything worked out ok, but it could have been much worse... I think perhaps if they were in a really remote area, had they not been able to clear the spine, they may have made the same decision. However, where they were, they likely had cell service and probably could have called in SAR. If they had tried to clear the spine and failed, that would have been the thing to do. As always hindsight is 20/20.

Not trying to place blame or anything. As I said I think they did a great job, I just think it should be a good learning experience for others to make sure that you clear the spine first.

Excellent points about escaping the belay.

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.

Last grade III I was on, we had a 2nd team just behind us. The last two pitches they slowed down to a snails pace as my team waited on top wondering if there'd been an accident. They showed up just before we started back down to assist. Scary to consider an accident, as this route was a must top out, with no rap options.

Craig Childre wrote:...this route was a must top out, with no rap options.

Were the anchors so bad you wouldn't trust them with body weight, or they were further than a ropelength apart?

Dylan B. wrote: IIRC, the route wanders quite a bit. Rapping off some of the anchors will leave you dangling in space and way off route.

I think we're talking about some other route now, not Dark Shadows.

Marc801 wrote: Reread Craig Childre's post. Seems like he was referring to some other route.

Whoops! Thanks, Marc. I deleted my post (even though it has been quoted and retained for posterity!).

FrankPS wrote: Whoops! Thanks, Marc. I deleted my post (even though it has been quoted and retained for posterity!).

Deleted mine - including your quote - as well!

Marc801 wrote: Deleted mine - including your quote - as well!

So it's like it never happened!

Thanks everyone for the input and support. These discussions are healthy and although they may get a bit off track, hopefully help everyone make our passion safer. I was previously involved in a SAR and helicopter extraction of one of my team of three. Taking knowledge from that and life's experience we made the calls we made. Here are few more details as I was the first to reach the injured party. We estimate it took 1.5 to 2 hours to realize what had happened and get to the climber. By that time he was on his feet, had secured himself, rigged a sling for his broken arm from a double shoulder length runner, re-racked the blown nut and draw and was completely lucid. He immediately said, "I think I've broken my elbow and have some cracked ribs". It appeared that a #1 cam placed about 15ft above might have taken some of the load from the fall as it was oriented downward with the two bottom lobes deep and secure and the tops less so. That said, it might have been loaded after contact with the rock. Something had pulled on it. There was also a rounded angle on the ledge that indicated a more glancing blow than a dead stop. We discussed options and the injured declared his desire and intent to rappel. We sent the twin ropes up to the above party member to rig for us all to join the belayer below. At that point we reassessed. One more rap got us to the top of pitch five where we were overtaken by darkness. Each rap involved a fireman's belay of the injured party and for all above parties for that matter. We constantly reassessed and kept the dialogue going with the injured party. We controlled what we could and were lucky with the rest. Thanks again everyone for your help in debriefing and processing. Thanks especially to those who recovered our gear. The people of MP and climbers in general are awesome.

I would presume they didn't have an x-ray with them so they didn't know he had a spinal fracture. It is important to remember that not all spinal fractures are severe or of great risk of further injury. In fact most aren't.

Recently a friend of mine fractured a vertebra in his neck in a fall. In this case rescue was called. He was out of hospital in a couple of days. He chose not to walk out because of concern for spinal damage, but he was certainly capable of doing so.

Crotch Robbins wrote: Were the anchors so bad you wouldn't trust them with body weight, or they were further than a ropelength apart?

The route traversed above a large cave. Only way to escape is to climb to the top and rap down the back of the formation. Traversing across to another route that could be rapped to the ground is possible at spots, but not advised. The late pitches are so easy it would be simpler to lift an injured climber than to attempt to descend.

Another side story... related to spinal injuries.

Relatively nooby climber, with new 9ish rope, and new Gri was on belay. Leader above the 3rd or 4th bolt falls. Gri was threaded backwards, and belayer was bent over tending to the rope as the fall occoured. Leader ended up landing on the belayer. Both decided they would be fine to hike out, and did. Leader actually had a hairline fracture on his heel, and the belayer had a broken neck. The leader continued to climb despite the pain. The belayer hiked out, drove home, and suffered for two more weeks before going to the Dr. Needless to say, he was shocked learning the severity of his injury.

Point being, spinal injuries are not always immediately apparent, even to the injured.

Craig Childre wrote:Another side story... related to spinal injuries. Relatively nooby climber, with new 9ish rope, and new Gri was on belay. Leader above the 3rd or 4th bolt falls. Gri was threaded backwards, and belayer was bent over tending to the rope as the fall occoured. Leader ended up landing on the belayer. Both decided they would be fine to hike out, and did. Leader actually had a hairline fracture on his heel, and the belayer had a broken neck. The leader continued to climb despite the pain. The belayer hiked out, drove home, and suffered for two more weeks before going to the Dr. Needless to say, he was shocked learning the severity of his injury. Point being, spinal injuries are not always immediately apparent, even to the injured.

Good point. Even though you don't feel hurt or injured, if there is a potential for spinal injury, should get it checked out and be careful.

Craig Childre wrote:Another side story... related to spinal injuries. Relatively nooby climber, with new 9ish rope, and new Gri was on belay. Leader above the 3rd or 4th bolt falls. Gri was threaded backwards, and belayer was bent over tending to the rope as the fall occoured. Leader ended up landing on the belayer. Both decided they would be fine to hike out, and did. Leader actually had a hairline fracture on his heel, and the belayer had a broken neck. The leader continued to climb despite the pain. The belayer hiked out, drove home, and suffered for two more weeks before going to the Dr. Needless to say, he was shocked learning the severity of his injury. Point being, spinal injuries are not always immediately apparent, even to the injured.

I'd imagine that the broken spine would be tender or painful to the touch and fail a focused spine assessment... Did they do one?

Point being, "spine injury" is injury to the spine. If the leader landed on the belayer from 4 bolts up and the belayer's spine was tender / painful, I'd call that a pretty apparent spine injury.

Chris,

Sorry to hear about the climbing accident. Glad to hear the training and knowledge of the group led to a safe self rescue. Hope your climbing partner is able to make a full recovery.

Steve

Props to the self rescue!

Not commenting at all on the proceedings of your rescue, just wanted to throw some thoughts in here. Any spinal tenderness and if at all possible SAR should be employed if you can bivvy safely until their arrival... I've had healthy fit patients experience cervical spine fractures (confirmed by imaging, not 'fakers') from <30mph car accidents (proper seat belt, proper head rests just bad luck) where their only complaint has been mild tenderness in their c-spine. Don't ignore the neck/back pain! A handful of times have seen these kinds of *low* MOI injuries with no neurologic deficits become partial or full paralysis as the tissues around the cords // broken vessels have caused swelling around the now unstable vertebrae during a long transport.

I just wanted to have this as a perspective that self-rescue is a great way to go, but if there's any finding that reasonably suggests a spinal cord injury professional extrication is warranted if this is an option at all. Having climbed in remote places I know that this isn't always an option and self-rescue is mandatory, but for most climbers on this board SAR is a valid option. If unfamiliar with self-rescue take a class, they're really important skills!

Did you consider tandem rappel with the injured party to be able to keep a close eye on them in case anything went bad while they were rapping?

As a side note - if there is tenderness in the cervical spine it's relatively easy to make a makeshift collar - SAM splints work great for this - to immobilize best you can if you're forced to move d/t being in a bad spot.

The comment that "cervical collars are going out" Is complete crap. Long spine boards are going out of vogue, but the c-collar is still and will continue to be a vital treatment and extrication tool.

Btw - your partner sounds like a badass.