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ATC-Guide wire popped out

Original Post
gavinsmith · · Toronto, Ontario · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 86

I had the wire pop right out of my 2-year-old ATC-Guide a couple days ago. It was right at the bottom of a single pitch rappel, and long story short, I pulled the wire to get the ATC a little further down the rope once at the bottom and the wire popped right out into my hand. Both ends came out at once with very little force.

So, once I let the ATC cool down, I took a look. The wire has plastic caps on either end that slip into the holes and plug them in (I assume there was some glue involved). These can pretty much go back in as they were before, reasonably tightly. The thing wasn't rated for any sort of force in the first place, obviously.

I can't really think of a scenario where that wire would experience enough load to pop it out again (in a place where I might drop it beyond retrieval), because that would most likely indicate misuse. I think my only concern is just that, the potentially greater possibility of losing the keeper wire half way up a wall, even while on my harness in a chimney or something. I haven't extensively considered what use might look like without the wire. I'd probably switch to storing it on my harness with the biner through the guide mode hole rather than the wire after this.

Anyways. Would you pop the wire back in and resume use? Replacing the thing is no issue, BD would probably send me a new one and I have a spare anyways, but I'm interested in what people have to say.

Kevin Neville · · Oconomowoc, WI · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 15

I'd pop the wire back in, add some epoxy, and pull test it by hand. Every once in a while my device catches on a lip as I'm standing up, and it would be annoying to lose it mid-climb that way.

I wonder if the heat from the rappel was a factor in it popping out?

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

The real purpose of the wire is to prevent the ATC from shooting up the rope if/when the two strands are parallel and moving. I don't think it happens a lot- you can use a figure 8 to belay, and it doesn't have one- so I don't really know how pressing of a concern it is.

gavinsmith · · Toronto, Ontario · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 86
kevin neville wrote:I'd pop the wire back in, add some epoxy, and pull test it by hand. Every once in a while my device catches on a lip as I'm standing up, and it would be annoying to lose it mid-climb that way. I wonder if the heat from the rappel was a factor in it popping out?
The epoxy route is what I'm thinking. And yeah, I think heat must have played a role, I've rapped dozens and dozens of pitches the same way (and often many pitches consecutively), but I don't normally pull on the wire like that, it was just weird ground to get stable on and I didn't want to leave the ATC on one part of the rope for too long.

Patrick Shyvers wrote:The real purpose of the wire is to prevent the ATC from shooting up the rope if/when the two strands are parallel and moving. I don't think it happens a lot- you can use a figure 8 to belay, and it doesn't have one- so I don't really know how pressing of a concern it is.
Yeah, I'm thinking the same, other devices don't have this failsafe so I can't see it being a huge issue. I can't think of a case where the ATC would be 'encouraged' to run up the rope (or ropes) out of reach, proper use or otherwise, really.
grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

I highly recommend you purchase a new device. Don't bother home rigging it to work. They really aren't that expensive. It is the nature of any manufacturing process to have some defective units and that is what you have.

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
grog m wrote:I highly recommend you purchase a new device. Don't bother home rigging it to work. They really aren't that expensive. It is the nature of any manufacturing process to have some defective units and that is what you have.
Yeah it's like $20 on sale no?
gavinsmith · · Toronto, Ontario · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 86
grog m wrote:I highly recommend you purchase a new device. Don't bother home rigging it to work. They really aren't that expensive. It is the nature of any manufacturing process to have some defective units and that is what you have.
Scott McMahon wrote: Yeah it's like $20 on sale no?
They're cheap, I have a spare, and BD might even just replace it. Just interested in what people think given the nature of that piece of the device.

Also, I just tried my hardest to yank the cable back out of the device and couldn't do it. It must have contracted again when it completely cooled down. Couldn't get epoxy in there if I wanted to, now.
Kevin Flowers · · Granby, CT · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 0

Same thing happened to me a couple weeks back. I went the route of buying a new one. I was thinking of fixing the old one though. Obviously there is very little safety issue, but it would suck to drop the sucker a couple pitches up.

Keep us updated on what you end up doing.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
gavinsmith wrote: They're cheap, I have a spare, and BD might even just replace it. Just interested in what people think given the nature of that piece of the device.
The things 2 years old; no reason to expect BD to replace it.

Buy a new one if you want, OP, but that keeper wire has no critical purpose other than to hang it off your harness.
Zac St Jules · · New Hampshire · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 1,188

Buy a new one? Why?

Definitely just pop it back in and glue it. or would soldering be an option?

gavinsmith · · Toronto, Ontario · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 86
Z.St.Jules wrote:Buy a new one? Why? Definitely just pop it back in and glue it. or would soldering be an option?
If it comes out again, I'll epoxy it. For now, I can't seem to pull it out no matter how hard I try, it must have contracted as it cooled after that rappel (I shoved the wire back in a few minutes later).

There's a plastic (or hardened epoxy) plug on the end of the wire, so solder wouldn't be an option.
grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70

I still recommend you buy a new one. It is a device that can hold the fate of your life, or another persons life. No one wants you to belay them with your ATC that you glued together.

Also soldering is definitely not an option. It is for creating a contact between wires and has no strength characteristics.

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10
grog m wrote:Also soldering is definitely not an option. It is for creating a contact between wires and has no strength characteristics.
That is... wrong. I've done a lot of soldering, and a properly done solder joint is quite mechanically strong.

Supporting evidence: RP's are soldered together.
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
Gunkiemike wrote: but that keeper wire has no critical purpose other than to hang it off your harness.
Um. No.
Jackson Gardner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

I used to rappel on an old atc guide without a wire, just set it up normally and pull a runner thruoght the guide mode hole to keep it in reach... Although the device never wants to go up, it usually stays with your locker

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Greg D wrote: Um. No.
explanation please...
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Patrick Shyvers wrote: That is... wrong. I've done a lot of soldering, and a properly done solder joint is quite mechanically strong. Supporting evidence: RP's are soldered together.
RP's cables are brazed into the brass heads.
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
Stagg54 wrote: explanation please...
Do I have to. Think about it.
Matt · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 106

If it seems to be secure, you should be good to go. You can try adding glue/epoxy, but its probably easier to spend the 20$ for a new one if your concerned about it. As you said, it is primarily a keeper and is non-load bearing while belaying.

They are initially glued in and if the device gets very hot and the glue softens up, you can yank out the wire with out too much force.

Definitely not a safety concern, but would be a bummer snag it/loose it on route.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Greg D wrote: Do I have to. Think about it.
No functional use for it other than keeping it from sliding up the rope, but if you pay attention to when you use it the wire generally has little to no force on it. I would guess the only real issue you could notice is on lead belaying and the device wanting to go up the rope.
Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Greg D wrote: Do I have to. Think about it.
humor me...
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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