lightweight z drag

hey im looking to make a lightweight z drag and I was wondering if 2mm Kevlar cord would work as a prusik knot on 550 cord? this is just for dragging 200lbs of gear up the side of a mountain....any thoughts? thanks

Micro Trax is the way to go, multifunctional and you don't loose efficiency while hauling

anybody?

If honestly think that the loss of efficiency and increased effort would make it worth it to drop the prussick cord and use some sort of mechanical rope grab, like a microscender, petzl Croll/basic, ropeman...A microtrax even better.

Look up Hudon's setup on this and his website. If you're hauling 200lbs then a slightly heavier system is well worth the extra efficiency.

A rope grab knot in 2mm will be really hard to loosen (to reset).

Wait, are you hauling with the 5.5 cord or is the cord your Z-line and the 2mm is just a rope grab? It is not clear what you itend to do. Either way, I think the reset is going to suck with a prussic cord. A lightweight system with no real rope grab or quality pulley for a 200lb load sounds like a terrible idea to me.

2 mm prusik on 4 mm paracord (you're talking about 550 paracord, right?) sounds terrible for hauling 200 pounds. There will be stretch in the paracord and the prusik will be very difficult to undo. Can you describe your system more?

To answer your question, there is enough of a diameter difference for the prusik to work. Maybe just try and test your system? Let us know how it goes.

thanks guys, Yea I just want something light weight. Ive got the oval carabiners and am going to buy the mini pulleys...what I need is a lightweight 100' rope/cord to haul 200-300lbs up the mountain and was thinking of using 550 cord but it sounds like that's a bad choice....would 8mm static work with a 5mm prusik? I understand about the mechanical stoppers but I don't have the cash to drop on one right now...

Do you have an old lead dynamic rope? Just haul with that and use the money to buy good pulleys and/or capture device. For the cost of the 8mm static, you could probably manage to buy a real pulley/rope capture system. In fact, I have a 1st generation Pro-traxion that I'd sell cheap. Not light, but it'd be cheap.

Hauling up to 300 lbs of stuff on paracord rated for 550 lbf (which is more like 350 lbf with a knot tied onto it)? Come on, the paracord would break before the load even got off the deck.

OP: I suggest you consult a professional as what you are asking shows a clear lack of knowledge in hauling, and that setup would, with absolutely certainly, fail instantly. If you are hauling 300 lbs of crap up the side of a mountain, you need to be using 11mm static or thicker. Also, a 1:1 would never cut it, you would need at least a 3:1 with that much weight.

20 kN wrote:I think this is a troll. Hauling on 2mm Kevlar? Come on, that's just waiting for an accident. With that might weight, haul on no less than 9mm static. It's not about the strength, it's about the abrasion resistance. Unless you're hauling in space, even the slightest rub on soft moss would cut clean through 2mm Kevlar. Also, Kevlar suffers horrible strength loss from flex fatigue and UV exposure. Some studies show as much as an 80% loss with heavy use. Dyneema would be a much better option, but still, 9mm at the thinnest for that much weight.

All of it sounds like a terrible idea, but if I understand the question, the 2mm Kevalr was just to be used as a prussic for the 550 paracord, not for actual hauling. Granted the paracord is still only 3-4 mm, right?, so it still sounds like a terrible idea.

csproul wrote: All of it sounds like a terrible idea, but if I understand the question, the 2mm Kevalr was just to be used as a prussic for the 550 paracord, not for actual hauling.

Yes, but he said he intends to use 550 paracord for hauling, which unless the load is 20 lbs, that's well beyond the limitations of that rope. He said he wants to haul as much as 300 lbs. With that much weight we are approaching steel cable territory. He needs to be using 11mm static for that much weight, especially when the rope is going to be running all over the side of the mountain on loose, chossy rock I presume.

I am not a troll 20kn, didn't know this site was for professional climbers who knew everything and everybody else who's just getting interested is not welcomed or frowned upon for asking questions, which is why a lot of people join forums....sorry my mistake....csproul, thank you for your help and I had to use my business email to make another account because this site only lets you reply to three posts the day you set up an account....in your opinion what size rope would you recommend for what I am doing? and I might take you up on your offer for the capture device. thank you

20 kN wrote:Hauling up to 300 lbs of stuff on paracord rated for 550 lbf (which is more like 350 lbf with a knot tied onto it)? Come on, the paracord would break before the load even got off the deck. OP: I suggest you consult a professional as what you are asking shows a clear lack of knowledge in hauling, and that setup would, with absolutely certainly, fail instantly. If you are hauling 300 lbs of crap up the side of a mountain, you need to be using 11mm static or thicker. Also, a 1:1 would never cut it, you would need at least a 3:1 with that much weight.

If you READ the OP it states that I am using a Z rig.

It is still very unclear what you intend to do. A Z-cord, as I have seen and used is a section of static cord, usually ~5mm used as a pull cord in a 3:1 pulley system. The cord is only used in the construction of the pulley system and not used to actually haul the load. The load is still hauled on an adequate rope, usually a static line somewhere around 8-12mm depending on the load and desired longevity. I have rigged a 5.5mm Z-cord to haul with old dynamic lead lines, but I am not hauling anywhere near 200lbs. I have always used (and seen in use) some sort of real rope capture system (usually a microtrax, or basic ascender) attached to the Z-cord. Using a 2mm cord as a capture and reset on the Z-cord would be a huge PITA and slow, at best. If you are, in fact, thinking of using the paracord for actual hauling, this is probably not safe for any real load. In fact, I'd probably not even use paracord for a Z-cord.

If you want a good illustration of the system, look for PTPP's posts on 3:1 hauling (this site, RC.com, and in climbing magazine online) or Mark Hudon's post here and elsewhere. I think that 20kN is somewhat correct here. It is clear that you are either very bad at describing what you intend to do or don't really understand the the basic principles of what you intend to do (or this is a troll). I highly suggest you study the existing posts about hauling such loads and try to fully understand them before continuing. Then people might be able to better answer your questions.

ok . thank you for the advice. I am a hunter and am looking for a way to get my game out of the mountains and figured climbers would know what they're talking about in using hauling systems. ill check those links and posts out

jake831 wrote:ok . thank you for the advice. I am a hunter and am looking for a way to get my game out of the mountains and figured climbers would know what they're talking about in using hauling systems. ill check those links and posts out

Now I'm no hunting expert, but based on my experience with Oregon Trail, my understanding is that no matter how big of an animal you kill, even if it's a 550 lb. buffalo, you can only carry 20 lbs. of meat back to your wagon. So, maybe you don't need a haul system, sounds to me like you just need a sharp knife and a small backpack.

And I know what you're thinking, but your 8 children can't help you carry additional meat, because they all have dysentery.

whaaat? Still doesnt make much sense.
You plan to drag an entire animal to your car using a hauling system?
Or know for a fact you will shoot an animal below cliffs that can only be surmounted by technical climbing?
And then either bone out the meat and put in a haulbag?!! Or drag it whole or gutted!!!?

Forget about it. Quarter or bone it out and split into manageable loads for the terrain. Use that 550 cord to tie it your pack frame. Make as many trips and/or bribe as many buddies ans necessary to get er done. Been done that way for thousands of years

If you can't reasonably get the meat out that way then please don't take the shot.

Good luck!

jake831 wrote:I am not a troll 20kn, didn't know this site was for professional climbers who knew everything and everybody else who's just getting interested is not welcomed or frowned upon for asking questions, which is why a lot of people join forums....sorry my mistake....

The first rule of joining any internet discussion forum is to lurk for several days or even weeks to see what the tone is like and the general audience. Registering and immediately jumping in with what is an incredibly naive question without any explanation of what you know or don't know and what you're trying to accomplish is usually not the best way to start.

The fact is there are trolls on the net who post inflammatory or outrageous stuff just to see the reaction. In fact there's a notorious serial troll on this very site. If you post something that seems trollish, expect to be questioned about being a troll.