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Beginning Climber Totally Lost

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Bobby Engelman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0

Hi there,
I'm 17 and I have recently caught the bug for climbing. I live fairly close to the RRG, and I would like to get into trad and alpine routes. I understand the Red doesn't have many long routes, but I was planning on training there. I've been climbing in the gym, but I always resent being there and not climbing outside. I don't know any experienced climbers and none of my friends are as obsessed as I am. Please give me tips on how to get outside and climbing. What to buy, who to talk to, what your experience was... Anything would be appreciated.

Paul Park · · San Jose CA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 35

If you can belay, I'd be down for a day trip to RRG if you want some outdoor sessions (sport climb only though)

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Bobby Engelman wrote:Hi there, I'm 17 and I have recently caught the bug for climbing. I live fairly close to the RRG, and I would like to get into trad and alpine routes. I understand the Red doesn't have many long routes, but I was planning on training there. I've been climbing in the gym, but I always resent being there and not climbing outside. I don't know any experienced climbers and none of my friends are as obsessed as I am. Please give me tips on how to get outside and climbing. What to buy, who to talk to, what your experience was... Anything would be appreciated.
get to Seneca! And there are a few multipitch climbs at the red.
Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025

Hey Bobby,

Obviously the "outside" climbers are outside. Assuming you have some belay training and can recognize a decent belay then go to RRG with only shoes, harness, one belay device, chalk bag and maybe a PAS or cord to clip into the anchor for a rope transfer, water/food...all in a day pack.

Before you go outside maybe learn how to do a rope transfer into belay anchors or chains on the ground so you have it mastered. People at your gym can help you and information is on the internet at places like Petzl.com or even here on Mt. Project.

Leave all the prussik cords, slings, draws, whatever at home. Beginners frequently arrive with extra parts and gear hanging on their harnesses and nothing says gumby faster.

Hang out... be friendly but not too enthusiastically forward. Forget the spray if you have any thoughts of that and keep your future aspirations to yourself. Nobody wants a strange "puppy" around and that's what you will look like if you are talking a lot about stuff you intend to do.

Observe who are the careful belayers and who is climbing at about your level (guidebook or an app download from Mt. Project will get you into your ability zones). Then go talk to them.

Sometimes climbers will be a little put off if you walk up and sit silently watching so maybe introduce yourself with eye contact and a confident handshake then get back out of the belay area and watch..."Hi, I'm Bobby and I am looking for people to climb outside with". Don't be offering advice or even talking while someone is leading near you.

Right now...till you master the subtleties of body language and behavior your reception is likely to be best with a group of "slightly older than you" male climbers. If you try to get in with a mixed group someone may think you are hitting on "their woman", as sexist as that may be. Don't get talked into trying anything you consider risky.

A large group with helmets usually indicates a guided party...probably not worth your time unless group activity is your thing. An odd number group is ideal as your round out their number and may be asked to belay or climb.

If you do get asked to join a group (which is almost inevitable) be sure to give a careful attentive belay

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Thomas Beck wrote:Hey Bobby, Obviously the "outside" climbers are outside...
All good advice. Also at the Red, try hanging out at Miguels or Lago Linda. Also as stated above, find a group of 3. Most groups of 3 would probably welcome a 4th (provided you can belay competently).
Bill Czajkowski · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 20

Try not to be too 17. Meet people where you can; make friends and see where they take you. Are you in a hurry to get somewhere in particular?

Bobby Engelman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0

Paul, I'll have to see about getting down there soon. Thomas, thanks for the advice. Do you recommend just showing up at Miguel's and looking for a group? Bill, I'd like to get to the RRG soon and get there often.

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Bobby Engelman wrote:Paul, I'll have to see about getting down there soon. Thomas, thanks for the advice. Do you recommend just showing up at Miguel's and looking for a group? Bill, I'd like to get to the RRG soon and get there often.
stop around miguels on Friday night and bring some extra beer. Give a few away and you'll make lots of new friends. casually drop that you are looking for people to climb with on Saturday... Almost guaranteed to work. Although as mentioned above may not work so well with groups of women as they may feel you are hitting on them, but with a mixed groups or group of dudes I think you'd be just fine...

On second thought I think you mentioned you were 17 so that might not work for you. Maybe buy a bunch of donuts and coffee or something Saturday morning and try to get with a group then.
Rob Dillon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 760

As principles of a happy life go, it's hard to go wrong with 'surround yourself with people who share your passions' and trusting for the best. Make sure you bring something to the party- food, psyche, belay skills, whatever. Go mow some lawns and buy a rope, so your stuff bears in wear & tear. Carry more than your share, you're 17. Leave the tinny phone music in the gym.

Report back occasionally, we're psyched for you.

Bobby Engelman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0

Thanks everyone I'm going to get some draws and a rope then I'll head down to the RRG. The gym I go to offers a lead climbing class, should I take that?

Steven Groetken · · Durango, CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 390
Bobby Engelman wrote:Thanks everyone I'm going to get some draws and a rope then I'll head down to the RRG. The gym I go to offers a lead climbing class, should I take that?
If you can take a class, take it. Nobody wants to instruct you on how to do something when they're belaying, and they probably won't feel safe when you are belaying. If your gym offers an anchor building class or self rescue, take that as well.
jhammer03 · · Manassas · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 45
Thomas Beck wrote:Hey Bobby, Obviously the "outside" climbers are outside. Assuming you have some belay training and can recognize a decent belay then go to RRG with only shoes, harness, one belay device, chalk bag and maybe a PAS or cord to clip into the anchor for a rope transfer, water/food...all in a day pack. Before you go outside maybe learn how to do a rope transfer into belay anchors or chains on the ground so you have it mastered. People at your gym can help you and information is on the internet at places like Petzl.com or even here on Mt. Project. Leave all the prussik cords, slings, draws, whatever at home. Beginners frequently arrive with extra parts and gear hanging on their harnesses and nothing says gumby faster. Hang out... be friendly but not too enthusiastically forward. Forget the spray if you have any thoughts of that and keep your future aspirations to yourself. Nobody wants a strange "puppy" around and that's what you will look like if you are talking a lot about stuff you intend to do. Observe who are the careful belayers and who is climbing at about your level (guidebook or an app download from Mt. Project will get you into your ability zones). Then go talk to them. Sometimes climbers will be a little put off if you walk up and sit silently watching so maybe introduce yourself with eye contact and a confident handshake then get back out of the belay area and watch..."Hi, I'm Bobby and I am looking for people to climb outside with". Don't be offering advice or even talking while someone is leading near you. Right now...till you master the subtleties of body language and behavior your reception is likely to be best with a group of "slightly older than you" male climbers. If you try to get in with a mixed group someone may think you are hitting on "their woman", as sexist as that may be. Don't get talked into trying anything you consider risky. A large group with helmets usually indicates a guided party...probably not worth your time unless group activity is your thing. An odd number group is ideal as your round out their number and may be asked to belay or climb. If you do get asked to join a group (which is almost inevitable) be sure to give a careful attentive belay
This is by far the best advice and answer to your question that you're going to get. I've joined groups and had others join my group, and all of these points are spot on.

Also, like others are saying: "be a careful and attentive belay." Good groups will watch you like a hawk until they're absolutely positive you can be trusted. They'll also probably let you climb first, and judge whether or not they feel comfortable even letting you belay by how you act on that end of the rope.

Be sure to double check your belayer. Have your belayer double check your knots. Use clear, concise commands. Be positive and confident.
Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5
Thomas Beck wrote:If you try to get in with a mixed group someone may think you are hitting on "their woman", as sexist as that may be.
This advice is spot on. As a woman, I can tell you that my biggest concern when I'm out climbing with a group of friends is that a random male will approach and try to take me away from the other male climbers who I rightfully already belong to.

Sometimes, I just stay home because I have trouble finding a climbing partner that not only has a penis, but is willing to consider me his property and protect me accordingly from the pain and confusion of having to interact with other males.
Doug Meneke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 10

Agreed!

Also, let them know if you know how to tie a figure eight and belay. BUT - Show them you are not worried about your ego...ask them to double-check your knot. Ask them to double-check your belay technique. TELL them you want to double-check THEIR knots, too. If you are belaying and they will be out of sight, ask them how they want to communicate (will they say TAKE, or will they say AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'M GONNA DIEEEEEEEEEE). Watch them...ask questions, even if you think you understand it all. They will appreciate it.

And just like here...don't be a jerk.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847
Em Cos wrote: This advice is spot on. As a woman, I can tell you that my biggest concern when I'm out climbing with a group of friends is that a random male will approach and try to take me away from the other male climbers who I rightfully already belong to. Sometimes, I just stay home because I have trouble finding a climbing partner that not only has a penis, but is willing to consider me his property and protect me accordingly from the pain and confusion of having to interact with other males.
LOL
Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450

Depending on your learning style, an introductory book (John Long's is my favorite, but people say good things about Craig Luebben's book also) can be really good for getting a feel for the basic principles and vocabulary. Long's book (I have only skimmed Luebben's) has a feature I really like: a relentless focus on the importance strong and reliable connections to the rock and to your partner.

Reading is obviously just a supplement to the other excellent suggestions already given, but can help you make the most of an opportunity when someone offers to teach you something or take you out.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

In order of "safest"

- hire a guide to teach u

- find a safe and experienced climber ... Give back beer, food, gas, yr tender yung bod ...

- join an recognized alpine club

- join a university/school climbing club ... Generally clubs that carry liability insurance are better

- join one of those newly popular meetup or facebook climbing groups

- learn off accredited books and videos

- go out with one of those "experts" who just took an intro course and is now bringing friends out to bang crags

- learn off intraweb forums and god knows what youtube vids

- just go out without knowing anything

;)

Bobby Engelman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0

Jake: should I try to find someone to be my "mentor" instead of figuring things out as I go.

Cole T · · Cincinnati, OH · Joined May 2012 · Points: 496

a mentor is a good thing, as a RRG climber there a decent number of long routes in the gorge. also post up on redriverclimbing.com/ this is where most RRG climbers troll and post on

Bobby Engelman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0
ColeT wrote:a mentor is a good thing, as a RRG climber there a decent number of long routes in the gorge. also post up on redriverclimbing.com/ this is where most RRG climbers troll and post on
I've been on redriverclimbing.com quite a bit, but I haven't posted yet. For the routes in the RRG what is your rack like?
Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025

Bobby,

You don't need to go out and buy a bunch of gear or draws. A 70m rope...maybe... but before you lay down the dollars, see what people are using and get a feel for what is best for you. That way you won't end up with a bunch of gear you don't use or like. Better to own a decent day pack, approach shoes and clip your climbing shoes on the outside.

Showing up with all shiny gear and body language which screams: "hey I a newb!" is not going to impress...trust me.

Books

People learn is many different ways. If you learn from reading, a book can be an excellent investment. If you are a kin-esthetic learner a book will gather dust in your room and only confuse you.

Mentors

Someone up thread posted about mentors. I have seen newbies being taken out by inexperienced leaders...scary to watch and you can easily develop poor practices and bad habits which will make you slower or later cause you to get injured. People who gratuitously offer to mentor are often not reading level on the bubble.

Better to climb with as many different people as you can, keeping in mind you want to climb with safe responsible folks. A guide can "jump start" your learning curve but not all guides are created equal or good teachers.

Prior communication, i.e. at the base is key to a safe lead or follow. Many scary, stressful and dangerous things can happen if this is ignored. The conversation begins with: "how do you want to do this"?

Questions are good but doing a verbal knot/harness check every time becomes irritating for some climbers. The other side of that is sometimes those same people have accidents due to "pilot error". I always take a look at my betrayer's set up...harness, gri gri threaded correctly. I will show them my tie in. A conscientious belayer will show you the gri gri is locking for instance.
If I am at a a busy/crowded place I use my leader or belayer's name when communicating. "Bobby, I got you" for instance; Bobby ....lowering". Honestly, there are a lot of little subtleties here which you learn by observing and then thinking about how you can improve. "How could I have done that better?" is always an appropriate question.

Contacts:

I use my cell phone to keep contacts and take it to the crag. It's like a date; take their number and send them a text or give your number and ask them to send you a text. Then follow up the next day. "Hey, It's Bobby. We met at blah blah crag. Thanks for letting me climb with you" End of text. If they want to remember you they will.

I have a 3 times rule; meaning if I make contact 3 times and you don't want to go out or have some other activity going on, I am putting you down lower on my potential partners list; I don't care what you can lead... Always show up on time or if something happens text but not at the last moment. I begin looking for people about 4 days prior to when I want to climb.

One action which will remove you from the potential partner list is if you make a commitment and then the night before climbing break it to go with someone else and I find out about it. Works both ways.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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