Broken Cam thread
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teece303 wrote:I do think X4s *might* be more fragile than other pieces of similar size, but we can sadly learn so little from anecdotes like this, because we don't know what happened and we never will.The two-axle/offset axle design of the X4s makes them inherently less robust. In small cam sizes my favourite are Master Cams. Metolius have a reputation for burliness and I believe Master Cams reflect this. |
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Dow Williams wrote:...many if not most trad leaders are simply not extending their trad pieces adequatelyPretty spot on and this is another point on which the bear and I agree - you're building a bottom-to-top rope system and that system needs to be designed so it displays two primary attributes: a) minimal rope drag and b) pieces aren't moving in their placements. And in the case of that latter attribute, it means pieces don't move in their placements while you are climbing / climbing past them and they don't get jacked all over the place in a fall. Another cause of this issue I'm seeing more and more of is people not being cognizant of or caring about the stem orientation of cam placements. If the stem is pointing anywhere near perpendicular to the rope path then you can pretty much be assured you cam is going to get jacked up as it attempts to rotate down in the direction it's being loaded. |
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I extend 75% of my placements. My focus is generally on rope drag, rarely on concern about jerking around my placements. But the effect is mostly the same. If you rope is travelling in a straight line then there is little rope drag and little forces on your gear as you climb. |
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So one if my partners have a few x4s thats have never been fallen on or hangdogged ... And he noticed for some reason his green had a bent stem near the thumb loop |
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Check this one out. |
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Patrick Heddins wrote:Check this one out. The cam was stuck at an angle perpendicular to the face when it was fallen on. A seemingly moderate fall.Bad placements can wreck cams. You can't really blame the X4 for that. Mind you a MasterCam with a shorter solid neck, solid cams lobes and a stronger single axle might have survived a bit better. |
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Failing to places cams in the direction of fall will result in a greater chance of bending, linking, or breaking of your gear. My 2 x4's have both caught me and look fine. I will fall on them again. |
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If you want safety and security stick to top roping. |
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Kevin Mokracek wrote:If you want safety and security stick to top roping.That is a bit silly. Most of us do want safety and security. We don't need to stick to top roping. |
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Man this thread has my head spinning. I'm not sure what to think of the x4s now. |
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Trust your gut. I'm inclined to continue to trust BD. I own X-4s, and have no problem with what I have (middle three). Looking to diversify, I'll be doubling up with Master Cams. I'm still a little skeptical of the 'new' Aliens, but might go for some of the old style, perhaps for the offsets. That is me. Gear hoard in training. |
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99% of "gear failure" is user error, primarily, improper or poor placement and/or directional attachment. Worrying that a Black Diamond or Metolius cam is going to break or mal-function from its intended use and cause injury or death is sort of like living every day in fear that a terrorist might end your life. Sure there are folks who live their life that way, many work for Fox News.... but climbing is probably not the best activity for same. Cam preference is a whole other matter that has nothing to do with safety. |
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Busted .2 X4 (5ft fall, undercammed placement in flaring crack)
Busted this guy a few days ago. It is a brand new cam, placed a few times, never fallen on until then. I got a few X4's as my first set of small cams and therefore don't have a ton of experience placing them. It was undercammed (you can kinda tell from where the wear is on the lobes) and it was in a slightly flaring crack. The direction of pull was as correct as could be. I fell about 5 feet from above and to the right of it. It started to catch me momentarily and then ripped. I think it's easy to blame the gear for these types of things but I will be first to admit that I am not great at placing small cams. Instead of walking away from this thinking X4's are terrible, I am gonna go practice placing small gear because the error is my own (OK maybe X4's could be a bit more durable...) Thought I would add my $.02 to the discussion. |
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Really happy you made it out ok, how far was your next piece? |
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Next piece was ~10ft. A bomber #3. Fall was super clean and belayer was attentive so no worries. |
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I talked to someone else at the crag that day, and if you fell from the crux (the undercling traverse), grey and yellow aliens or the equivalent protect that section very well. The crack is quite irregular, with some good placements and some really bad ones. |
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Glad you're ok... do you think this may have been an umbrella type failure due to undercamming? |
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cjdrover wrote:I talked to someone else at the crag that day, and if you fell from the crux (the undercling traverse), grey and yellow aliens or the equivalent protect that section very well. The crack is quite irregular, with some good placements and some really bad ones.Yeah fell at the crux. Damn it is so fun. Thanks for the beta. To Chris NH: Looks like a busted umbrella so I'd say yes. I couldn't comment on their relative durability though as these are my first small cams. |
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Chris NH wrote: I'm wondering if the X4s are more fragile than the Mastercam small cams or is this thread just bringing people out of the woodwork?I was thinking the same thing...why haven't we seen similar threads about the master cams or C3s breaking if all these X4 failures are just user error? |
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aaron hope wrote: ...why haven't we seen similar threads about the master cams or C3s breaking if all these X4 failures are just user error?+1. This seems to be a much more frequent problem with the BD X4's than other small cams. |