Tallulah Gorge Peregrines

BHMBen wrote: Whoa, buddy.... Cooperation? It has come to light recently that the SCC has had little to no contact with Tallulah of late. There are also other egregious examples of lack of oversight, but we won't go there. The best policy concerning Tallulah, given the current lack of climber traction/respect within the park system, is to abide by the rules and lay low. I.E....don't bring up "scary birds". Wow.

There a website or forum post you want to direct me to about that? Or is this word of mouth? I would be interested in learning more about it.

I'm not interested in saving these particular falcons. As someone said, it's a large gorge and we can climb only in a very small portion of it. I would much rather keep the access.

Happily, I can't "step in" anything on the Internet. I can simply close the browser. Since it's such a hot topic, perhaps all these knowledgeable posters should take their combined insight and passion and work on figuring out what to do about it. This is the first I've heard of "egregious lack of oversight" and I would say I'm more informed, albeit slightly more, than the average climber in the southeast today.

Enlighten me.

Thank you.

PM sent.

Chris Hara wrote: There a website or forum post you want to direct me to about that? Enlighten me. Thank you.

You can start be reading your access org of choice's overall mission statement and "rules" for any given area...and then contrast that with the tactics of their kool-aid drinkin minions or their crack bolting President (yeah, I said it) at said area on any given weekend. It won't give you the entire picture....but it's a start.

so these birds need peace and quiet huh? Is that why they nest on skyscrapers in big noisy cities?

Paul Barnes wrote:They're not big enough for me to knock a lung loose with a sharp broadhead and eat em...so they can nest wherever they want to as far as I'm concerned. BUT...the PETA people need to stay out of it. It's between me and the birds.

Paul, this type of attitude is ignorant. Raptors (including falcons) are protected. You are not free to kill them as you wish, so it is not between you and the birds. Also, the fact that you think if you can eat it you should kill it, further illuminates your ignorance. Regardless of our climbing communities love for the outdoors, in no way should we be jeopardizing the nesting of these birds (or any birds for that matter). I am in no way associated with PETA, but I am a vegetarian by choice, and choose vegan as much as possible. I do so because we have evolved to be omnivores and we can choose to not exploit other living things for food. If I were in a survival situation and had to eat meat, I would do so with the utmost respect of the animal that's life was lost so mine could continue. Just because I can kill your children (if any woman would have them with you) and eat them, should I? Just because they are "big enough for me to knock a lung loose with a sharp broadhead and eat em"? And yes, human life and animal life are equal and comparable, regardless of what you think or say (any dictator will tell you they are superior to their subjects, does not make it true and does not justify their monstrosity) . And to the person who posted a picture of the falcon in the city, if you were to have your home destroyed and built over, you would try and pick up your life and continue, yes? This is what the falcons are doing in the city. They are adapting to the human destruction of their habitat. If you wish to perpetrate more destruction of habitat by justifying what is already done, shame on you. Kudos to the OP for making the community aware, and I will be advising the parks service and any other resources possible of this nesting. (and I DO NOT live in this area. This is due to Paul Barne's attitude that he has the right to kill these birds. I hope for the closure, so as to prevent this.Regardless of where you live, you should care about ecology, and the preservation of species that have been endangered and infringed upon by human kind.). I do not post often, nor will I reply to criticism or making light of this post. Just wanted to call out an ignorant sense of entitlement, and state that these animals deserve protection regardless of how much you like to climb in an area. Again, thank you to the OP for making the community aware, so that they can avoid/protect these creatures. That is the correct approach, and it is a shame that the attitude of people like Paul Barnes requires cliff closures, and that the parks service be informed. Paul, anything you have done to benefit the climbing community is great, but this is a huge disservice. Let's keep cliffs open by shedding the mentality that killing animals we encounter is ok, and by reporting raptor nesting to the access fund and other climbers so that we can take appropriate measures to protect these animals that we are so gifted with sharing the planet. If we can peacefully climb without disturbing the nests, so be it. But this should be up to a biologist (or team of), and not ignorant climbers who have no education or training to decide. Find a different cliff to kill at, Paul Barnes. (Or decide to become a human worthy of sharing the planet with these creatures, and stop killing and change your mindset! I believe that you can learn and change just like anyone else!). MP COMMUNITY - PLEASE SHARE RAPTOR NESTING SITES HERE AND WITH YOUR LOCAL ACCESS FUND, AND ENCOURAGE OTHER CLIMBERS TO TAKE NOTE AND CLIMB ELSEWHERE DURING NESTING SEASON! IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

Jack V wrote: Paul, this type of attitude is ignorant. Raptors (including falcons) are protected. You are not free to kill them as you wish, so it is not between you and the birds. Also, the fact that you think if you can eat it you should kill it, further illuminates your ignorance. Regardless of our climbing communities love for the outdoors, in no way should we be jeopardizing the nesting of these birds (or any birds for that matter). I am in no way associated with PETA, but I am a vegetarian by choice, and choose vegan as much as possible. I do so because we have evolved to be omnivores and we can choose to not exploit other living things for food. If I were in a survival situation and had to eat meat, I would do so with the utmost respect of the animal that's life was lost so mine could continue. Just because I can kill your children (if any woman would have them with you) and eat them, should I? Just because they are "big enough for me to knock a lung loose with a sharp broadhead and eat em"? And yes, human life and animal life are equal and comparable, regardless of what you think or say (any dictator will tell you they are superior to their subjects, does not make it true and does not justify their monstrosity) . And to the person who posted a picture of the falcon in the city, if you were to have your home destroyed and built over, you would try and pick up your life and continue, yes? This is what the falcons are doing in the city. They are adapting to the human destruction of their habitat. If you wish to perpetrate more destruction of habitat by justifying what is already done, shame on you. Kudos to the OP for making the community aware, and I will be advising the parks service and any other resources possible of this nesting. (and I DO NOT live in this area. This is due to Paul Barne's attitude that he has the right to kill these birds. I hope for the closure, so as to prevent this.Regardless of where you live, you should care about ecology, and the preservation of species that have been endangered and infringed upon by human kind.). I do not post often, nor will I reply to criticism or making light of this post. Just wanted to call out an ignorant sense of entitlement, and state that these animals deserve protection regardless of how much you like to climb in an area. Again, thank you to the OP for making the community aware, so that they can avoid/protect these creatures. That is the correct approach, and it is a shame that the attitude of people like Paul Barnes requires cliff closures, and that the parks service be informed. Paul, anything you have done to benefit the climbing community is great, but this is a huge disservice. Let's keep cliffs open by shedding the mentality that killing animals we encounter is ok, and by reporting raptor nesting to the access fund and other climbers so that we can take appropriate measures to protect these animals that we are so gifted with sharing the planet. If we can peacefully climb without disturbing the nests, so be it. But this should be up to a biologist (or team of), and not ignorant climbers who have no education or training to decide. Find a different cliff to kill at, Paul Barnes. (Or decide to become a human worthy of sharing the planet with these creatures, and stop killing and change your mindset! I believe that you can learn and change just like anyone else!). MP COMMUNITY - PLEASE SHARE RAPTOR NESTING SITES HERE AND WITH YOUR LOCAL ACCESS FUND, AND ENCOURAGE OTHER CLIMBERS TO TAKE NOTE AND CLIMB ELSEWHERE DURING NESTING SEASON! IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

I'm resisting the temptation to delete this as a "jerk post" just because it has no paragraph breaks.

JL

saxfiend wrote: I'm resisting the temptation to delete this as a "jerk post" just because it has no paragraph breaks. JL

Thank you for not deleting, JL, as this is a very important issue. I will work to break paragraphs in future posts. :)

It's not that important, I can promise you Paul doesn't shoot raptors with a broad head.

"Paul, this type of attitude is ignorant. Raptors (including falcons) are protected. You are not free to kill them as you wish, so it is not between you and the birds. Also, the fact that you think if you can eat it you should kill it, further illuminates your ignorance. Regardless of our climbing communities love for the outdoors, in no way should we be jeopardizing the nesting of these birds (or any birds for that matter). I am in no way associated with PETA, but I am a vegetarian by choice, and choose vegan as much as possible. I do so because we have evolved to be omnivores and we can choose to not exploit other living things for food. If I were in a survival situation and had to eat meat, I would do so with the utmost respect of the animal that's life was lost so mine could continue. Just because I can kill your children (if any woman would have them with you) and eat them, should I? Just because they are "big enough for me to knock a lung loose with a sharp broadhead and eat em"? And yes, human life and animal life are equal and comparable, regardless of what you think or say (any dictator will tell you they are superior to their subjects, does not make it true and does not justify their monstrosity) . And to the person who posted a picture of the falcon in the city, if you were to have your home destroyed and built over, you would try and pick up your life and continue, yes? This is what the falcons are doing in the city. They are adapting to the human destruction of their habitat. If you wish to perpetrate more destruction of habitat by justifying what is already done, shame on you. Kudos to the OP for making the community aware, and I will be advising the parks service and any other resources possible of this nesting. (and I DO NOT live in this area. This is due to Paul Barne's attitude that he has the right to kill these birds. I hope for the closure, so as to prevent this.Regardless of where you live, you should care about ecology, and the preservation of species that have been endangered and infringed upon by human kind.). I do not post often, nor will I reply to criticism or making light of this post. Just wanted to call out an ignorant sense of entitlement, and state that these animals deserve protection regardless of how much you like to climb in an area. Again, thank you to the OP for making the community aware, so that they can avoid/protect these creatures. That is the correct approach, and it is a shame that the attitude of people like Paul Barnes requires cliff closures, and that the parks service be informed. Paul, anything you have done to benefit the climbing community is great, but this is a huge disservice. Let's keep cliffs open by shedding the mentality that killing animals we encounter is ok, and by reporting raptor nesting to the access fund and other climbers so that we can take appropriate measures to protect these animals that we are so gifted with sharing the planet. If we can peacefully climb without disturbing the nests, so be it. But this should be up to a biologist (or team of), and not ignorant climbers who have no education or training to decide. Find a different cliff to kill at, Paul Barnes. (Or decide to become a human worthy of sharing the planet with these creatures, and stop killing and change your mindset! I believe that you can learn and change just like anyone else!). MP COMMUNITY - PLEASE SHARE RAPTOR NESTING SITES HERE AND WITH YOUR LOCAL ACCESS FUND, AND ENCOURAGE OTHER CLIMBERS TO TAKE NOTE AND CLIMB ELSEWHERE DURING NESTING SEASON! IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!"

Pretty sure Paul was kidding...

WOW...that is all I got...I will resist climbing into this fray...

wow...

You know you want to, Jeff! I am laughing so hard right now. Jack V...Wilderness Socialism at it's finest!!!

You guys are killing me here!

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

Further explanation:
This post had some valid points about an outsider trying to affect a very local issue. However, it went WAY over the line with personal attacks. This issue is pretty interesting, and well worth a public debate, but if you are not capable of discussing the ISSUE, without personal insults, don't post.

-Nick (Landlord)

Jack,

LMMFAO!...just damn. See how testy ya get when ya don't consume enough flesh? Like a bitch.

I kill things (not Falcons) and eat them. I won't even attempt to explain my personal tactics, which very much favor the hunted over the hunter, because we are so diametrically opposed that there's not an intelligent discourse to be had with the likes of you on the matter. Get over yourself.

Ignorant?...hardly. Better ask somebody.

Carry on with your omnivorous self. In the meantime I'm gonna listen to some Ted Nugent and throw some flesh of a dead animal on a fire.

Tyler,

I think they just don't want their Pres outed as a crack bolter before his appearance on American Ninja Warrior. An FA of a route on private property called "Sport Rack Crack" would surely tarnish the image.

I can't wait to move to WY

Did you get the job Rhett?

Jack V wrote: Thank you for not deleting, JL, as this is a very important issue. I will work to break paragraphs in future posts. :)

While you're at it, you should also work on your sarcasm detection skills. Your attacks on Paul Barnes for what was obviously a joke post were uncalled for.

JL

What a bunch of jerks. If I am climbing and find a SPARROWs nest in the crack, I back off. I don't care if it's endangered or not. But to OPENLY say "shhhhhhhhhhhhhh"....so LOUDLY that EVERYONE HEARS IT...kind of defeats the purpose of your "shhhhhhhhhhhhhh". You are either an idiot or disingenuous (yes, people say SHHHH loudly on purpose).

Thank you Jon for letting us know. By the way, Guideline #1 says "don't be a jerk", yet somehow...

I guess we should all feel guilty about being near the top of the food chain. Maybe we should pay a tax.

Back to the topic at hand:

Land managers don't have to be involved in order to preserve wildlife. There are plenty of other cliffs in the area that have peregrines nesting where the land managers don't know they exist. We coexist with them and they thrive, because they remain in those areas for years with no climbing closures. I won't disclose those areas out of fear that one of you will screw up that access also. It is weak stuff like this that makes me want to throttle some people, goes right up there with bolting next to cracks.

My story about the last time climbers were alerted to "dangerous" wildlife happened on the Western Carolina Climbing section on FB. Someone felt the need to alert the climbers of this "dangerous" animal (hint: they come out every f'ing year when it gets warm). So what happened next was some people decided to go mess with the animal and handle it. Then a few weeks later someone felt the need to kill it. More human involvement with wildlife is never the answer or "LNT", and that is exactly what this thread did. Any person with common sense when approaching the nest and are alerted by the bird would downclimb and back away. Nobody is going to trudge right through the nest. Instead of just avoiding one climb or a small area, now we have no control over them shutting down an entire cliff.

Considering the thing that I was trying to prevent already happened, I am giving up on this matter. My resolve is to be way more harsh next time. Jon Cabrera, let me know next time you are out at the cliff and I will come hold your hand.