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Rope Solo w/Gri-gri

Original Post
Matt Clay · · PNW · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1,032

I'm interested in getting into Top Rope Soloing w/Grigri. Been reading up on it on previous threads and it seems the best/most common method is using a Mini Traxion in tandem with a Microsender. I have neither and finances make either a luxury at the moment.

Came across the video in the link youtube.com/watch?v=0dYYsun… and it seems that the dude is rope soloing w/ only a Grigri. While the video intrigued me, it seems, to my limited experience in either top rope soloing or rope soloing on lead, to be a bit unsafe.

Main things that stood out were:

(1) I can't make out any sort of backup to the Grigri. Am I missing something? He doesn't stop to tie backup knots and I can't see another device or method that would save him if the Grigri somehow failed.

(2) He anchors the "belayer's" side of the rope to the first bolt, but doesn't back it up. Would clove hitching to a biner on the 2nd bolt be adequate backup?

(3) How is the Grigri moving so smoothly/quickly up the rope as he ascends? Is he just leaving a large amount of slack out from bolt to bolt? (Just watched again before posting, and it looks like he is pulling out slack after clipping each draw.)

Andrew Rivera · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 30

If top rope soloing is what you're interested in, I don't think this vid will be very helpful to you. There are lots of TR soloing forums for you to reference but IMO it would be worth it to get at least one of the devices you mentioned and back it up with a prussik, if you're worried about saving money.

Highlander · · Ouray, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 256

Grigri is not the best device for top rope soloing, but it does work. Downside is it does not feed smooth till you have a lot of rope hanging from it, i.e. near the top of the climb, so you end up having to feed rope through it. You can add weight at the bottom of the rope, like a water bottle to help with this. You can back up the device by tying knots in the rope as you climb up, another PITA. Another solution if your rope is long enough, fix the rope in the middle at the top of the climb, so you have 2 strands coming down, climb on one strand with the grigri and pre place back up knots in the second strand that you can clip as as back up as you climb up. Always back up a grigri some how, lots of accidents out there with people rope soloing with a grigri and no back up. Again there are better devices out there for the job.

Mike Cara · · Hendersonville, NC · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 21
Highlander · · Ouray, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 256
Mike Caracciolo wrote:http://youtu.be/8AnpN3gSho8 Do this.
Don't do this! Not very efficient, more rope in the system so your going to fall further, still no back up, and no self feeding.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

I think it is funny how they say it is "prohibited" on their website... I have done it before when my partner bailed on me last min after i had drove 3 hours to the wall =/ It is a pain to do but as long as you have solid anchors and you back it up as you go it works.

Depending on your setup I have seen alot of people tie backup knots before they start and they take them out as they get to them, probably the easiest way to do it.

In the case of the video his anchor is the first bolt, when i do it i start with it already anchored from the ground, that is maybe what is confusing you.

Basically it works something like this, so if your grigri fails it won't pass a knot during a fall, and you can untie them as you get to them and replace them with gear / bolt.

---Anchor(rope end)----bolt(or gear)----bolt(or gear)----climber(grigri)----(safetyknot)---(safetyknot)----(other rope end, can tie this back into yourself as well)

Highly would not recommend doing this unless you completely understand the risk and what is all going on (aka you posted this under beginner)

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

Spend the 60 dollahs on a microcender

And read this

petzl.com/en/Sport/General-…

And get someone safe and experienced to check yr setup

Thats all there is to it

;)

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

Freaky, one lot of people talking about top-rope soloing, another lot talking about lead rope soloing and each telling the other they are wrong.

Matt Clay · · PNW · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1,032

Thanks for the helpful responses.

Sorry to be confusing - I am interested in Top Rope Solo w/GriGri. But the video is Rope Solo w/GriGri. My reason for posting was simply to see if I was understanding how the guy in the video was Rope Soloing w/ only a GriGri.

I'm not going to run out and rope solo in this manner, but was hoping someone with experience could comment on the 3 take-aways I had from watching the video.

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
MClay wrote: I'm interested in getting into Top Rope Soloing w/Grigri.
The guy in the video is solo leading, not top roping. But I guess you knew that. When leading backup knots are essential whatever the device. I have been saved by a backup knot.

You can use a gri gri in much the same way to top rope, with the same modification as he has, but most people would say a back up is still a good idea, and that you should just save up and get a microtrax and a micro ascender to equivalent, or join a club and borrow them from other members.
Paul Hutton · · Nephi, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740

I don't solo with a rope, but I've seen solo rope climbers use a Tibloc and have seen people use the Micro Traxion. Back up either device with a tibloc or a prusik. Solved.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
David Coley wrote: The guy in the video is solo leading, not top roping. But I guess you knew that. When leading backup knots are essential whatever the device. I have been saved by a backup knot. You can use a gri gri in much the same way to top rope, with the same modification as he has, but most people would say a back up is still a good idea, and that you should just save up and get a microtrax and a micro ascender to equivalent, or join a club and borrow them from other members.
Difference between top rope and lead rope soloing is on lead you can have pretied knots as a backup. If you want to put a backup knot it would be on the belay side going up under the grigri

climber(tied in)-----------top rope anchor(rope going down)-------------grigri(at climber)-------safety knot-------other rope tail

You could tie an overhand / clove to a biner and clip that biner to your harness so when you reach the finish it is easier to remove instead of removing on repel. Depending on the route it could be hard to tie knots so you may want something you tie once at the bottom and can just slide up as you go under the grigri.
Matt Clay · · PNW · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1,032

Been reading all the old forums in conjunction with your answers. Gonna save up and get a microcender in a few months.

My primary objective is to be able to get lots of milage in at my local crag. The crag is short with lots of easy/moderate climbs. Probably 50 climbs with easy access to the bolt anchors from the other side. Just for theory's sake - If I halved the rope by putting a figure 8 on bight and secured it to the existing anchor bolts w/ lockers, I would have two fixed lines. Attaching the GriGri as self-belay on one side of the rope, but backing up with pre-tied knots to clip into belay loop from the other side of the rope would be solid back up?

Still have the pain of pulling slack thru the GriGri, but that seems to be similar to the system that Viper was explaining.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872
MClay wrote:If I halved the rope by putting a figure 8 on bight and secured it to the existing anchor bolts w/ lockers, I would have two fixed lines. Attaching the GriGri as self-belay on one side of the rope, but backing up with pre-tied knots to clip into belay loop from the other side of the rope would be solid back up? Still have the pain of pulling slack thru the GriGri, but that seems to be similar to the system that Viper was explaining.
It's a bit of a pain, but it works and is what i've done on routes I was comfortable on. You'll want two tethers with locking biners so you can clip the next backup before dropping the previous. Works well on nearly vertical climbs which are in a nice straight line with decent spots to adjust the backup, not on wandering routes. Know that if the grigri slips and you fall on your backup knots, there's a risk of getting your legs tangled in the loop and inverting you. Hang a little bit of weight on the bottom of the grigri line to help with the feeding.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

I suppose that would work. If i understand you right you are talking about doing something like this where there is a knot at the anchor and you are "aiding" up a single line with a grigri but using pretied knots on the other side to clip into your harness as you are climbing?

The only issue is in a fall on this system is going to put more stress on the system because at this point all your weight will be on one side or the other instead of spread between both sides, not that it should matter in top roping.

rope end----------climber/grigri---------------anchor(knot)
-----------------------|knot-|knot----knot-----knot------------|

Chalk in the Wind · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 3

My TR solo system is two strands with an Ascender on one and a Microcender on the other. I weight the ends of both strands so that feed is good from the very beginning. It beats my older system of the Ascender and tying backup knots or clipping pretied ones.

Big downside: descending can be a pain in the ass if you don't top out. Unweighting the Ascender can be tricky, and even after that's done and you're anchored and rigged for rappel, you also have to release the Microcender as you rap (unless you first pull that strand through, which if weighted comes with its own issues).

I usually don't solo routes, on TR or lead, that I can't extract myself from relatively easily if need be, but I've still had a few situations that caused a lot of cursing.

Still, I like it better than TR soloing with the Grigri simply because feeding the rope with the Grigri is such a hassle. Of course, it's easy to descend if you have to if you're using the Grigri as your primary, but the harder the route, the harder it's going to be to feed the rope.

Matt Clay · · PNW · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 1,032

Yeah, that's the basic idea I had. As I said it is mostly on easy/moderate routes for running laps. I think the upside of the system I described is that descending is very quick/easy - no change over between devices needed, just unclip from the backup knots and rap with the Grigri.

I can't imagine that TR "falls" would put too much strain on either side of the rope. It is vertical/less than vertical, slightly slabby terrain so the most likely "grigri failure" would be a sliding fall. The safety knot side/anchor should be more than adequate to catch.

Gonna make sure and test is on the ground and on my home bouldering wall (has anchors at the top) many times to make sure I have it dialed. AND run it by an experienced friend first! Thanks.

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

Because of the issue with descending when using a trax etc. I use a grigri to work routes I know I will fall. These tend to be routes with hard cruxes, rather than things that cause me to pump out.

I climb to the crux pulling rope through the grigri occasionally. Below the crux I hang off the rope on the grigri and tie a backup knot. I then try and climb the crux, fall, rap down a few metres, climb, fall.... This really isn't possible with a trax-like device. Theses are often real lead-like falls as I might only be able to pull slack through the device once during the crux, or not at all.

On the other hand if I'm going for milage, and I don't think I will fall, then I use a pair of trax on one rope much as petzl recommend (except they suggest you use two different devices rather than a pair so you can't mess up in the same way with both devices; guess I should buy a microcender).

For most of my life I have used just one trax/basic, but felt pressured into adding a second when a friend from the Valley pointed out that Dean Potter uses two devices - and he's not a man famed for being over cautious.

JSharpe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0

Works fine with a grigri, just tie your backpack in at the bottom, hanging in the air, and it pulls most of the slack through. You still have to occasionally pull in the slack yourself when you want to be tighter on the rope or there is too much drag. My friend was doing this yesterday and it worked great. As for backing up the grigri, it is really no different than if you are being belayed on top rope by someone from a grigri, if it fails, you fall.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872
JSharpe wrote:Works fine with a grigri, just tie your backpack in at the bottom, hanging in the air, and it pulls most of the slack through. You still have to occasionally pull in the slack yourself when you want to be tighter on the rope or there is too much drag. My friend was doing this yesterday and it worked great. As for backing up the grigri, it is really no different than if you are being belayed on top rope by someone from a grigri, if it fails, you fall.
The difference is your belayer has a hand on the brake strand and is maintaining the device. In top rope soloing, the grigri is flopping around on your belay loop, it could potentially get into a position where the cam is obstructed, the carabiner is crossloaded, etc.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
JSharpe wrote:Works fine with a grigri, just tie your backpack in at the bottom, hanging in the air, and it pulls most of the slack through. You still have to occasionally pull in the slack yourself when you want to be tighter on the rope or there is too much drag. My friend was doing this yesterday and it worked great. As for backing up the grigri, it is really no different than if you are being belayed on top rope by someone from a grigri, if it fails, you fall.
Yea as larry says this is bad because you have no safety if the grigri fails.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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