"It's gone free at ___."

How is the info about an aid climb lost just because one person was able to free it? Why does everyone eat this stuff up? "There's no aid climbs there anymore, they've all gone free." And somehow all the info about countless wonderful climbs is lost. What about the first asentionist style? "Now" it's a free climb, it wasn't before. I don't know man, I don't like it.

Stop living in the past.

old book

The info is still all out there, just stop being lazy and stop admitting to being to lazy to look at a book on the internet. Do you really expect MP to have 50yr old climbing beta on it? when no one climbs the routes in that style any more?

Also the style and gear listed for 60 yr aid climbs is generally frowned upon these days, and you might even get your ass kicked for hammering in some areas, especially on routes that can be sent clean nowdays. not to mention your really gonna piss someone off by take 1154 hours to nail and aid a route that could be climbed free at 5.9 in 5 hours.

Tronald Dump wrote: not to mention your really gonna piss someone off by take 1154 hours to nail and aid a route that could be climbed free at 5.9 in 5 hours.

+!1 +1! +1
YES

My two cents...

- Just because somebody manages to free climb an aid route does not mean that it's no longer an aid route. (If this pisses you off, then go put up some new hard free climbs that aren't already aid climbs, tough guy!)
- Just because somebody manages to aid climb a wall route in one day does not mean that you can no longer haul/camp on it.
- Just because somebody free-soloed a route does not mean that you can no longer climb it with ropes either.

But... If a nail-up goes clean, you should no longer place pitons on it.

Actually, many guidebooks will have a first ascent listing that looks like:

Climb x, fa- so and so, 5.8a2 , ffa-so and so, 5.10

Open your eyes and mind man, just because a route is listed as a free climb doesn't mean you can't go aiding up the thing (clean aid). That 5.8 warm up may just be the bitchin c1 you've been looking for. So long as you don't use a hammer on a route that's been freed, do as you will. Besides, from my observations, there's a ton of (free) climbing happening at the crags every day that is in reality some form of aiding, French free, hangdog, top rope etc.

The reason people "eat this stuff up" is because the vast majority of climbing being done is free climbing. Usually when a climb is put up, if there is aid involved it's because the people who put it up couldn't free climb it. I know, as I have done many fa's where aid was used and later returned to be free climbed.

If you are insistent on having the old information, I suggest starting a collection of vintage climbing books, perusing the AAC journal back issues (they go back to the days of Korea and Robbins) or starting "mountain project classic" and getting the old timers to submit the beta for the naked edge circa 1965

You can aid anything you'd like.

WHY you'd want to do that is beyond me.

You'll want to use this.

web.archive.org/web/2006071…

You could also use the same service for the previous sites mp is made up of.

Dustin B wrote: starting "mountain project classic"

supertopo?

Patrick Kehoe wrote:How is the info about an aid climb lost just because ONE person was able to free it?

It usually isn't. Like others have said the old guidebooks are out there, but even the new ones usually include both aid and free ratings until the climb is overwhelmingly done as a free route.

My two cents--

have you ever been passed by a free party while aiding a route? I have, and nothing makes you feel more stupid...

Patrick Kehoe wrote:How is the info about an aid climb lost just because one person was able to free it? Why does everyone eat this stuff up? "There's no aid climbs there anymore, they've all gone free." And somehow all the info about countless wonderful climbs is lost. What about the first asentionist style? "Now" it's a free climb, it wasn't before. I don't know man, I don't like it.

It's not when just one person frees it. It's when a route is commonly done free that it is no longer an aid climb.

It's called evolution!, the standard for free climbing has increased to point where the average 9-5 desk jockey weekend warrior type can easily attain the ability to climb 5.12-5.14. Routes that used to be aided can now be climbed free by "average" climbers. The NF of Rostrum and Astroman use to be aid climbs now any one can walk up and free those routes in an afternoon. Moonlight Buttress & Rainbow Wall are other examples of routes that use to be popular amongst aid climbers, now can be free climbed by "average" climbers. It's evolution of the sport, and just happens all the routes I have listed have been free soloed, another evolution.

According to MP's statistics the average female climbs 10a and males 10b.

Eric LaRoche wrote:According to MP's statistics the average female climbs 10a and males 10b.

Not in my neighborhood.

Highlander wrote: the average 9-5 desk jockey weekend warrior type can easily attain the ability to climb 5.12-5.14.

I need to get a 9-5 desk jockey job

Highlander wrote:It's called evolution!, the standard for free climbing has increased to point where the average 9-5 desk jockey weekend warrior type can easily attain the ability to climb 5.12-5.14. Routes that used to be aided can now be climbed free by "average" climbers. The NF of Rostrum and Astroman use to be aid climbs now any one can walk up and free those routes in an afternoon. Moonlight Buttress & Rainbow Wall are other examples of routes that use to be popular amongst aid climbers, now can be free climbed by "average" climbers. It's evolution of the sport, and just happens all the routes I have listed have been free soloed, another evolution.

Inigo Montoya

Just saying that today just about anyone is capable of climbing on the lower end of those grades if they really want to.

Especially if it's offwidth.

Reality check from outside the young hip spray fest mountain town bubble…let me fix this for you:

It's called evolution!, the standard for free climbing has increased to point where the average 9-5 desk jockey weekend warrior type can easily attain the ability to climb 5.10 and dog their way to the point they can redpoint some low 5.11 super protected route. Routes that used to be aided can now be climbed free by "average" climbers (no surprise, lots of 5.9's used to be aided). The NF of Rostrum and Astroman use to be aid climbs now around 1% of dedicated 9-5 desk jockeys can walk up and free those routes in an afternoon. Moonlight Buttress & Rainbow Wall are other examples of routes that use to be popular amongst aid climbers, now can be free climbed by elite climbers. It's evolution of the sport, and just happens all the routes I have listed have been free soloed, a personal choice by a few and not something you should blab about.

Greg Barnes wrote:Reality check from outside the young hip spray fest mountain town bubble…let me fix this for you: It's called evolution!, the standard for free climbing has increased to point where the average 9-5 desk jockey weekend warrior type can easily attain the ability to climb 5.10 and dog their way to the point they can redpoint some low 5.11 super protected route. Routes that used to be aided can now be climbed free by "average" climbers (no surprise, lots of 5.9's used to be aided). The NF of Rostrum and Astroman use to be aid climbs now around 1% of dedicated 9-5 desk jockeys can walk up and free those routes in an afternoon. Moonlight Buttress & Rainbow Wall are other examples of routes that use to be popular amongst aid climbers, now can be free climbed by elite climbers. It's evolution of the sport, and just happens all the routes I have listed have been free soloed, a personal choice by a few and not something you should blab about.

Greg,

Where I live is neither young nor hip, you must be thinking of somewhere else. The majority of the local climbers around here are retirement age or even older and still get after it. BTW I consider myself a very average climber not an elitist.