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The call to close down Everest for a while

Roots · · Wherever I am · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 20

"What a devastating couple of years for the Nepali people and families of the Sherpas lost."

Exactly

I Man · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0
Christopher Gibson wrote:This might be a rediculus question but is climbing Mount Everest even considered actual mountaineering among the mountaineering community?
No. Not even remotely. It means absolutely nothing when someone says they have been up Everest. jugging ropes, using ladders, not carrying your gear or making decisions is not mountain climbing. Furthermore oxygen effectively lowers the altitude of a peak by as much as 1500m.

As far as unguided and doing it properly, that is still very, very, very difficult and cutting edge. It happens, but it isn't as common (Raph's team is on the North Side this year trying to do it properly).

You'll notice that even mainstream media calls it 'hiking Everest' these days.
Anyone who does it without oxygen deserves tremendous respect, and it is almost impossible to do that while dealing with the crowds on the SE Ridge.

I think it is extremely telling that when the icefall got taken out, all of the tourists needed to be choppered off. I understand the economic implications, but if you were required to know how to climb to get a permit for Everest, I think that would be a lot more respectful.

The whole thing is a highly complex issue and a lot of people are over it.

Thoughts with the general population of Nepal.
mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0

Just out of curiosity, what does a western guide make on Everest?

Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
mediocre wrote:Just out of curiosity, what does a western guide make on Everest?
This is from RMI's website "Starting pay ranges from $125 (entry level) / $175 (experienced guide) / $200 (AMGA Alpine certified) to $250 (IFMGA certified) per day, depending on experience and certifications." So $250/day for 60 days is $15,000. Not bad for two months of hard work, but obviously wages are highly subjective.
mediocre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 0
Brendan Magee wrote: This is from RMI's website "Starting pay ranges from $125 (entry level) / $175 (experienced guide) / $200 (AMGA Alpine certified) to $250 (IFMGA certified) per day, depending on experience and certifications." So $250/day for 60 days is $15,000. Not bad for two months of hard work, but obviously wages are highly subjective.
Yeah, but guides are basically on 24 hours a day. $250 a day is $10.42 an hour, if you're a beginner guide that's a little more than $5 an hour. I'm willing to bet that doesn't cover anything other than catastrophic life insurance.
I think we should all protest the exploitation of western guides until they're paid a real living wage.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

Guide vs large pizza

DavisMeschke Guillotine · · Pinedale, WY · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 225

^ A large pizza can feed a family of 4..

So assuming Everest does get shut down, who makes that call? Is it Tibet or Nepal?

Jason Hayden · · North Clarendon, VT · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 9,585

Just got a notification from a friend who guides Everest and Tibet has supposedly shut down all climbing for the rest of the season...makes sense that they need to focus on their people and not worry about recreational climbers.

Here's his post:
"At meeting with all the CTMA officials. They have just announced all mountains in Tibet have been closed. So no climbing Everest this year
— at Everest Base Camp."

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
freezeus wrote:Just got a notification from a friend who guides Everest and Tibet has supposedly shut down all climbing for the rest of the season...makes sense that they need to focus on their people and not worry about recreational climbers. Here's his post: "At meeting with all the CTMA officials. They have just announced all mountains in Tibet have been closed. So no climbing Everest this year — at Everest Base Camp."
This really makes no sense from a practical point of view. The amount of resources dedicated by the Chinese to the N face expeditions is very little and redirecting those resources elsewhere will not make any genuine difference to any earthquake rescue efforts.

It may be that the sherpas on the N face expeditions would like to go home and help, can't blame them at all. And if they leave, then most of the expeditions are over regardless of the Chinese decision.
ErikaNW · · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 410

Per @northmenpk on Twitter:

"#Everest Himax team has decided to stay in base camp and give another try to Everest, by carrying loads to C1 through Heli.Nepal authorities have told them, that choppers will be available after rescue operation. They are willing to wait."

Anyone else have issues with this? Seems that those resources could be better used elsewhere - like assisting the people in the outlying villages who are still waiting for help.

Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
ErikaNW wrote:Per @northmenpk on Twitter: "#Everest Himax team has decided to stay in base camp and give another try to Everest, by carrying loads to C1 through Heli.Nepal authorities have told them, that choppers will be available after rescue operation. They are willing to wait." Anyone else have issues with this? Seems that those resources could be better used elsewhere - like assisting the people in the outlying villages who are still waiting for help.
Yes, the resources Everest Himax currently has could be used in the outlying villages especially after I read an article today saying villagers are blocking roads to demand supplies. Apparently most of the resources are focused on the capital region and a lot of the remote villages are being neglected.

However, Everest Himax is a private business. Their clients paid a lot of money to climb Everest. The resources they have at Base Camp were it part largely paid for by the clients and I'm sure they are probably paying a premium to use a helicopter to shuttle supplies higher up. I don't know if there is any regulation in the permits that they have to help out if a disaster occurs. They probably had very lengthy discussions with everyone on the expedition regarding their next course of action. They can choose this course of action.

But who am I to argue this topic. Russell Brice has done more good for the region than I ever will.
Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

I doubt you get to operate a helicopter charter co. in Nepal without strong family and financial, um, "connections" to the government and military. (look at the org chart below, for example)

In theory, you could requisition all these helicopters under some sort of martial law, but would the people in charge really do so?

If the news reports that these companies are voluntarily splitting their helicopters between public and private rescue missions are actually correct, they're already doing more than I would have expected them to. Good for them.

FISHTAIL AIR’S MANAGEMENT TEAM:
Chairman- BIKASH JB RANA
CEO- SUMAN PANDEY
Executive Director/Operation - CAPT. ASHISH SHERCHAN
Director Of Safety & Chief Pilot - CAPT. DEEPAK JB RANA
Director- COL. MR. BISHWO K. GORKHALI (RTD)
Director of finance- MR. KIRTI BH. BASNET.

Ryan Maitland · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 10
ErikaNW wrote:Per @northmenpk on Twitter: "#Everest Himax team has decided to stay in base camp and give another try to Everest, by carrying loads to C1 through Heli.Nepal authorities have told them, that choppers will be available after rescue operation. They are willing to wait." Anyone else have issues with this? Seems that those resources could be better used elsewhere - like assisting the people in the outlying villages who are still waiting for help.
While I somewhat understand the angle of pushing on (sunk cost, "tribute" to those lost, summit fever, once in a lifetime trip, etc.), the fact that they are taking heli trips up the mountain not only bastardizes the entire climbing process but is such an arrogant, disrespectful show of the worst possible kind to the Nepali people.

There are people dead and dying under rubble fields as close as base camp and throughout the country but these people think it prudent/in good taste to catch a leisurely heli ride over the dead bodies in the icefall to re-establish camp 1 and keep climbing? It doesn't matter if those same heli's would be assisting in the rescue or not. Think about that for a minute.

How selfish - but I suppose the same could be said for our entire pursuit in these mountains. This shit really takes the cake.
Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

Looks like this account from Himax dated 4/29 directly contradicts the tweet that says they have definitively decided to keep climbing:

"Our Himex team will stay at Everest BC for the next few days and we will then decide if we will continue or not. Talking to Phurba he tells me that the Sherpas are ready to go back to BC and to assess the conditions in a few days time and will then make a collective decision. This morning when I was at the airport I had a meeting with the NMA and the Minister of MoT and he gave us permission to fly loads to C1, but only after the helicopters come free from rescue operations which we of course totally agree with.

Russ"

- See more at: himalayanexperience.com/new…

ErikaNW · · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 410

^^^ That seems a little better. Thanks!

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

The Everest ER finished up their work and picked up what remains were left of their clinic. Some of the medical providers also worked the 16 or so refugee camps around Kat. There's still remote areas that need humanitarian resources.

But, I'm sure if there's a need to promote the suffering children of the world in order to recreate on a mountain for publicity, some are probably more than willing to accept that challenge as well. Provided there's a fixed line, and someone else to bring up the tent, and food, and helis to ferry the cameras with an espresso.

Ryan Maitland · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 10
himalayanexperience.com/new…

NEWSLETTERS - Everest 2015

The Daily Moraine 2015 #4 - Everest decision1 May 2015
Hi All
It seems that the media is all very ready to tell the world that I have made a decision to continue to climb on Everest, when in my last newsletter I said that we would assess the situation: the ministry, the expedition operations association, my team, the Sherpas as well as the scale of the disaster in the whole country had to be considered. At that stage I had not made a decision as there were so many factors to be considered. Now having considered all facts, I can tell you that we will not be continuing any of our ascents in Nepal this season.

Yes I have attended many meetings here in Kathmandu with the Ministry of Tourism and Expedition Operators Association. Many operators not just Himalayan Experience have attended these meetings, and in general we as operators have been advising that the Everest season should not continue, due to safety, lack of logistics, and of course the dramatic situation in Nepal at present. But as is often the case in Nepal there are many points of view from government level, to operators, SPCC, HRA and the like to be considered. And also the wishes of our clients also need to be considered.

Yes our team is still at BC where they are actually comfortable and safe and have not been putting pressure on any of the rescue activities that are taking place in Nepal at this moment. In fact immediately after the avalanche at BC our team was very involved in the search and recovery of injured many who were treated by our own expedition doctor Anne Brants. Many of the injured spent the night in our two dining tents before being evacuated the following day. Anne tells me how hard it was to have people dyeing as she was trying to treat them. Our camp also became the home for many others who had lost their tents and infrastructure, and I believe it was only yesterday that the last of these people finally left our camp. I’d like to say thank you for the fantastic job they’ve done so far.

We also lost our main communications tent in the avalanche so this has not made it any easier for our team of guides who have been working so hard to help with rescue operations.

Most of our Sherpa staff have spent the last week at home making sure that their families are safe and making repairs to their damaged buildings. But all were willing to return and carry on climbing, so I also needed to take their point of view into account.

Currently members are packing and waiting for porters and yaks and also our Sherpa staff to arrive from the lower villages so as they can make an orderly return, trying to use the least amount of resources as possible. We have been considering to get everyone to Pheriche and then flying out to Ktm by MI17, this would put less pressure on the lodges and infrastructure going down to Lukla. But it seems unlikely that I can get an MI17 in the current situation, so it seems that everyone will need to walk to Lukla, so I do not expect that they will be back to Ktm until about 4 or 5 May. Now many of the operating hotels are full of media personnel or rescue teams, so there is still an accommodation problem here in Kathmandu.

Likewise, the Makalu team are slowly taking the Advanced Base Camp down to lower BC. There we will store equipment until the emergency situation in Nepal is over. All left over expedition food will be given to the local communities, as will all Everest food. However I still require helicopter evacuation for all members and staff from Makalu BC to Pheriche where they can meet with the Everest members again and for the Sherpa staff can finally get home.

It will still take a few days for my guides and Sherpa staff to take down our BC, so staff will not be out to Ktm for at least 2 weeks.

In the meanwhile we continue to search for the 3 missing Indonesian trekkers, 2 guides and 5 porters who were in the Langtang area. It appears that most injured and dead from this area have been transported to the road head, but there is very little news coming from this devastated area, so it will still take time to establish where these members are. This morning I was meeting with the Indonesian Army rescue team to plan on to how proceed with further searches.

We continue to support all of our staff and their families during this difficult time. Like many others, we will open a fund so as we can collect money which will be used to directly support all of our normal staff for reconstruction of their buildings.

Russ
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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