Mountain Project Logo

Characterizing Dynamic Ropes

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Deimos wrote:For quite a while I have been wondering why climbers consider the principal characteristic of a rope to be its diameter.
Probably because they couldn´t give a sh*t about all that other stuff but want to know if the diameter is compatible with their belay device, ascender etc.
nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 525

Basically in my eyes, larger diameter=heavier=more durable; smaller diameter=lighter=less durable. I think this is a pretty accurate correlation that covers at least 80% of what I care about. The other 20% is pretty subjective and will need some first-hand reviews to determine. Stuff like

bearbreeder wrote:for example the tendon ambition 10.2mm is one of the slickest 10mm+ ropes ive used when new (even when not dry treated) and feeds TONS easier than the maxim glider 10.2mm ... the former weights 67 g/m while the latter 66 g/m
My only complaint is that +/-0.2 mm for the diameter (as per UIAA spec) is pretty generous leeway to give the manufacturers. When the size range for most single ropes is 9mm-11mm, 0.2mm is a 10% swing.
Mark Thesing · · Central Indiana · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 60

Bring back the good old days. Back in the 80s when I started climbing the choices you had for ropes were 9mm or 11mm, 150 feet (~45 meter) or 165 feet (~50 meter), and the fall rating. The choices where a lot simpler then. Now don't even get me started on the choice in shoes between then and now.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Mark Thesing wrote:Back in the 80s when I started climbing the choices you had for ropes were 9mm or 11mm, 150 feet (~45 meter) or 165 feet (~50 meter), and the fall rating.
And the 9mm were strictly for double rope technique. They weren't even tested as single ropes.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
20 kN wrote: I'll just leave it at this. Arguing with Beerbreeder is like arguing with the weekend warrior who climbs three 5.8 trad routes every other weekend but thinks he knows more about climbing than everyone else at the crag combined.
I hear he was banned from Reddit for bullying and chastising everyone there.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Nathanael wrote:Basically in my eyes, larger diameter=heavier=more durable; smaller diameter=lighter=less durable. I think this is a pretty accurate correlation that covers at least 80% of what I care about. The other 20% is pretty subjective and will need some first-hand reviews to determine. Stuff like My only complaint is that +/-0.2 mm for the diameter (as per UIAA spec) is pretty generous leeway to give the manufacturers. When the size range for most single ropes is 9mm-11mm, 0.2mm is a 10% swing.
Its actually used to be +/- 0.3 mm till last year i believe ... Ill find the document when im back from the crag

You older 9.8 could really be a 10.1mm or 9.5mm

Weight is more useful as a very general comparative value, but useless for finding out the real weight of ur rope

T Roper wrote: I hear he was banned from Reddit for bullying and chastising everyone there.
U mean that place where its perfectly fine to learn climbing skills on youtube and everyone upvotes pics of their chalkbags and memes ?

Climbing aint an intrawebz popularity contest ... The rock doesnt care what yr intrawebz karma score is

Perhaps u can contribute to the discussion of ropes rather than trolling ... Somehow i doubt it though

;)
Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

None of the manufacturers talk about "handling" - something I find important in my choice. I like a soft, flexible, smooth running rope - not a stiff one.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Chris Rice wrote:None of the manufacturers talk about "handling" - something I find important in my choice. I like a soft, flexible, smooth running rope - not a stiff one.

Manufacturers do measure it, but many dont post the spec

Knotability
Excellent flexibility is one of the most important requirements imposed on climbing ropes. How is this parameter quantified? A simple knot is made on the tested rope and a 10 kg load is subsequently applied (in case of single ropes). Then, the internal diameter of the knot is measured and the knotability ratio is calculated. Its value shall not exceed 1.1 times the rope diameter.
CAUTION! Poor flexibility essentially impedes both the tying of knots and the rope's passage through the karabiners of the belaying system. The effects of the weather and insufficient care of the rope are also detrimental to the rope flexibility. Our company has built an in-house test laboratory for testing the performance of TENDON ropes, including a drop tower. Therefore, when newly developed ropes are shipped to European test laboratories for certification, they are fully prepared and their technical parameters are known.


However many its only valid when new as when a rope wears it tends to get stiffer ... And some rope get still fairly fast comparatively

Ill post up more tmr about it when im back home

;)
Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55
bearbreeder wrote: Manufacturers do measure it, but many dont post the spec Knotability Excellent flexibility is one of the most important requirements imposed on climbing ropes. How is this parameter quantified? A simple knot is made on the tested rope and a 10 kg load is subsequently applied (in case of single ropes). Then, the internal diameter of the knot is measured and the knotability ratio is calculated. Its value shall not exceed 1.1 times the rope diameter. CAUTION! Poor flexibility essentially impedes both the tying of knots and the rope's passage through the karabiners of the belaying system. The effects of the weather and insufficient care of the rope are also detrimental to the rope flexibility. Our company has built an in-house test laboratory for testing the performance of TENDON ropes, including a drop tower. Therefore, when newly developed ropes are shipped to European test laboratories for certification, they are fully prepared and their technical parameters are known. However many its only valid when new as when a rope wears it tends to get stiffer ... And some rope get still fairly fast comparatively Ill post up more tmr about it when im back home ;)
Thank you - a comparison of different companies general characteristics would be awesome. Example Beal is soft - BW is not - or whatever.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
bearbreeder wrote: Manufacturers do measure it, but many dont post the spec Knotability Excellent flexibility is one of the most important requirements imposed on climbing ropes. How is this parameter quantified? A simple knot is made on the tested rope and a 10 kg load is subsequently applied (in case of single ropes). Then, the internal diameter of the knot is measured and the knotability ratio is calculated. Its value shall not exceed 1.1 times the rope diameter. CAUTION! Poor flexibility essentially impedes both the tying of knots and the rope's passage through the karabiners of the belaying system. The effects of the weather and insufficient care of the rope are also detrimental to the rope flexibility. Our company has built an in-house test laboratory for testing the performance of TENDON ropes, including a drop tower. Therefore, when newly developed ropes are shipped to European test laboratories for certification, they are fully prepared and their technical parameters are known. However many its only valid when new as when a rope wears it tends to get stiffer ... And some rope get still fairly fast comparatively Ill post up more tmr about it when im back home ;)
The knotability test is a pass or fail, it is only measured with a 1.1 mandrel so there´s no other "measurement" for the manufacturers to give.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Jim Titt wrote: The knotability test is a pass or fail, it is only measured with a 1.1 mandrel so there´s no other "measurement" for the manufacturers to give.
Well if you check the spec on ur tendon ropes youll see a knotability of 0.8

Does this mean that they are soft and supple?

Now this chart below is for static ropes, not dynamic ... But it is used by PMI for the ropes below

Regardless its only valid for when new

PMI

;)
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

Fair enough. The standard only gives one measurement system and I can´t say I´ve ever bothered to look at all that other stuff rope manufacturers put out, price, diameter and reputation are the only things I bother with. I don´t weight 10kg so guess the knotability is irrelevant anyway:-)

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

I've never owned anything except Mammuts but I remember a BD rope of a friend as being so stiff (new) as to be almost unusable. I'm considering a new pair of Mammut Genesis (this would be my third pair) but at $400 and not on any real sale (that I can find anyway)- I have started looking around at some other companies half ropes. I'm not really a fan of the super thin twins etc that are now the standard twin systems. Being more anal than necessary I know but $400 is a lot of money to me.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Chris Rice wrote:but I remember a BD rope of a friend as being so stiff (new) as to be almost unusable.
A BD rope? Are you sure?
Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55
FrankPS wrote: A BD rope? Are you sure?
I am sure it was a terrible rope. It has been probably 10 or 15 years ago now so I am not sure it was BD - but I think it was anyway.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Chris Rice wrote: I am sure it was a terrible rope. It has been probably 10 or 15 years ago now so I am not sure it was BD - but I think it was anyway.
Black Diamond used to sell Beal ropes.
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
FrankPS wrote: A BD rope? Are you sure?
Seriously? My first two ropes were BD.

How old are you, ten? ;)

"There were BD brand name ropes from 1990 through 2001. After that it was all Beal distribution. "

The nice sterling 9.8 is the shit for handling, durability, and catch:

Mammut knows how to make a good Rope but usually doesn't.

Petzl 9.2 is awesome for the red-point, but don't try bonking.

Best to own them all so you have the right rope for the situation.

There are so many shitty rope manufactures it's incredible, some last forever and handle like pigs, others handle nicely and get cut after a year.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
FrankPS wrote: A BD rope? Are you sure?
mountainproject.com/v/when-…
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

^^^^

Thanks, Marc.

JQ - Yes, ten. Almost eleven now. Will you come to my birthday party?

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

i don't know about most of you guys but fall rating doesn't mean much to me because i very rarely, if ever, am in a situation when taking huge whippers, one after another or taking FF2s. i would guess that the average user retires their rope because they got a coreshot in a bad place or had to cut their rope too many times. in other words, most people wear out their ropes' sheath not their ropes' core. 9 times out of 10, a thicker rope means more sheath means more durability and more weight. those, along with how supple the rope is, are pretty much the only things most people are considering when they buy their rope. that is why diametre is the main characteristic.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "Characterizing Dynamic Ropes"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.