Wilderness First Aid

Em Cos wrote:Agree with everything Kent Richards said. Even if you don't plan to work in the outdoor ed field, part of the value of getting a standard WFA cert from a nation........ to take these courses with you. None of these skills and knowledge will help you if you are the one that gets clonked on the head (as I learned myself the hard way once.)

Thank you for your response. I've given it some more thought and I think you're both right - the Dr Smith course is overly ambitious and most likely not what I'm after.

I'll stick with a more traditional course - most likely NOLS. I don't think I'll have the time for a WFR right now so I'll begin with a WFA.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

wildmed.com/wilderness-medi…

If you want to get a little more in-depth without taking a whole week off work, you may consider WAFA - Wilderness Advanced First Aid - it's a 4-day course instead of the 2-day WFA, and you can upgrade to a full WFR with another 4-day bridge course down the road if you decide to continue.

wildmed.com/wilderness-medi…

Anyway good luck with whatever you decide, it's always good to see climbers taking the initiative to get the skills they need to be safer and more self-reliant out there.

Hiro wrote:+1 Kent It's (NOLS WFR) the only first aid course I've taken which I thought was useful (WFR is my highest level attained/attempted). I have attempted non-NOLS WFR, which blew chunks and I stopped attending class.

I don't know what other non-NOLS outfit you got, but I took a NOLS WFR and a non-NOLS WFR and the NOLS one sucked in comparison. It was a puppy-mill by comparison just churning out certifications. NOLS had a much larger class size, fewer intructors. The non-NOLS class actually brought others in to be patients, instead of making the students do it, so the students got more practice and the scenarios were more realistic. It was leagues better.

The only reason people like NOLS more is because they recognize the name.

Disclaimer: Unfortunately most places will only recognize NOLS or SOLO, so if you take a class from another outfit it might not work for you. However that is BS because NOLS and SOLO don't set the standards. They teach to the standards set by the Wilderness Medical Society (WMS). WMS sets the standards. As long as you are educated to that, it shouldn't matter who teaches it. The knowledge is what is important. There are plenty of other groups that teach to the WMS standards.

I should add

NOLs course - 2 instructors - 30 students cost $600

non-NOLS course - 4 instructors + 4 patient actors - 20 students - cost $500

Both taught to WMS standards. non-NOLs instructors seemed way more knowledgeable.

NOLS seems like a ripoff to me...

I had a good experience with NOLS. That's not to say non-NOLS courses can't be good either. A lot about the quality of the course depends on your instructors. It was a while ago, but my course was less than 20 people and 2 instructors.
The material in a WFR is pretty straightforward. I think it was basically summarized earlier in the thread and it's not going to change much from company to company.
Don't invest in an EMT unless you're going to use it for work. Unless you have money and time to burn it's not worth it other than personal enrichment or to get a job.

Stagg54 wrote: The non-NOLS class actually brought others in to be patients, instead of making the students do it, so the students got more practice and the scenarios were more realistic.

Other points aside, over the many recerts I've done and classes I've assisted with, I've found that I learn a lot from being a patient. When the caregivers make mistakes, I get to see and feel from the patient's perspective why they aren't the recommended procedures.

Would have to agree with Stagg54 about NOLS for WFA, though. The 2-day course I attended as a recert felt kinda rushed to me. But it could have been that I was expecting WFR-level detail, and they simplify some things for WFA. No matter whom you go with, for WFA I recommend a 3-day course at least.

Kent Richards wrote: Other points aside, over the many recerts I've done and classes I've assisted with, I've found that I learn a lot from being a patient. When the caregivers make mistakes, I get to see and feel from the patient's perspective why they aren't the recommended procedures. Would have to agree with Stagg54 about NOLS for WFA, though. The 2-day course I attended as a recert felt kinda rushed to me. But it could have been that I was expecting WFR-level detail, and they simplify some things for WFA. No matter whom you go with, for WFA I recommend a 3-day course at least.

As far as the students playing patients I do see what you are saying and in the non-NOLS there were on or two scenarios where they did let the students play patient just for that reason.

I found as patient it was often hard to remember the exact details of the symptoms I was supposed to have. Also some of the other students were very poor actors. I found that the "hired" patients were much more realistic and really challenged the students who were trying to treat them.

Generally I feel that requiring a WFR cert from NOLS or SOLO is kind of like saying we'll only hire engineers who have degrees from this one high end university. It doesn't make a lot of sense. The truth is that in the end, when the shit hits the fan in the field and you need to take care of your buddy who is injured, it doesn't really matter where you got your WFA/WFR from. What matters is the knowledge that you got out of the class.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I have reservations about Dr. Smith. Her resume seems super stacked, but in my experience, I'd rather take a course from a first responder (urban medic or EMT, SAR personnel) than a doctor whose experience is limited to strictly clinical setting. There is not a single even 1-week stint as an expedition medic on her CV. Just because she does all these REI stuff, doesn't make her an expert in wilderness medicine. It is amazing how limited the healthcare providers get once the patient is transferred from the ambulance into the ER. Plus what doctor nowadays spends more than 10 min with a patient?

Having said that, I'm not against non NOLS, SOLO providers. I've taken my WFR recert with Peter Muckerman in Telluride and it was the best money and time spent. Just make sure the certification is reciprocated from NOLS and SOLO and that the provider is somehow affiliated with one of the Wilderness Medicine associations (Wilderness Medical Society or Wilderness Medical Associates). It is very important that the provider is up to date to all the latest field findings and methods.

If anyone is near ohio I have an instructor for WFR WFA courses or are willing to travel number 419-788-6247 or text

I should add course cost is $250