New Beal round stock sport draws/biners

these seem to make a lot of sense if yr whipping alot on sport at cruxes ... especially for the first and/or crux biner that often sees the most wear

round stock biners would be much less likely to develop a sharp edge quickly than the fancy new ibeam biners ....

and the draws dont seem to weight any heavier ...

to me its a bit of a mystery why some companies are going to ibeam biners for the bottom on dedicated sport climbing draws, its not like you save much weight especially as you still have a beefy dogbone ...

youtube.com/watch?v=6hRk5m8…

more at link .... en francais

montania-sport.fr/2015/04/b…

;)

A wider turning radius also reduces friction = less rope drag.

Nice, those will definitely add to rope life, and prob last longer as rope side carabiners too, even if you're not constantly whipping on them. A wire gate variant would be nice too if they don't already make it.

Look pretty similar to the old Petzl Spirits. I love the older Spirit model. These however seem to eliminate climbing on static ropes caused by using classic geometry biners according to the pictures posted from the manual.

I whipped in my driveway this morning, these could have really helped.

kevin neville wrote:A wider turning radius also reduces friction = less rope drag.

Linnaeus wrote:Nice, those will definitely add to rope life, and prob last longer as rope side carabiners too, even if you're not constantly whipping on them. A wire gate variant would be nice too if they don't already make it.

the article does mention these benefits ... a bit of google translate-fu ...

However, "natural" limits exist, particularly in relation to the rope. If pushed to the extreme, to equal resistances, nothing would prevent having carabiners 3mm in diameter! Nothing ... ..sauf rope, which must be based on sufficient material to not be damaged.

Indeed, two characteristics of the geometry of the carabiner influence the behavior of the string:

the shape of the receiving area on which the cord is flattened at the time of the fall.
The profile of the contact surface.
In case of repeated falls, inappropriate geometry leads to premature wear of the rope.

....

What are the benefits?

They are the number of 4:

-Limited rope wear: during a fall, or during power-up, the rope has a greater bearing surface to preserve its original characteristics
-Better shock of the fall: less angle means less draw, so more smoothly when the fall occurs, making it mathematically reduce the impact force and fall factor throughout the chain
-Sliding improved: at the rope manipulations, especially when belaying the first or second, it is easier to make his manipulations (plate, tube, Munter hitch, etc.)
-Soft decision easier: for the insurer, it is easier to give slack quickly to head climber


i suspect that for folks who buy wiregates generally to save weight it might be a bit heavy, but for workhorse sport draws it makes absolute sense ...

Mahcire wrote:Look pretty similar to the old Petzl Spirits. I love the older Spirit model. These however seem to eliminate climbing on static ropes caused by using classic geometry biners according to the pictures posted from the manual.

im actually not quite sure why petzl went ibeam on the basket on their new spirits ... for workhorse sport biners it doesnt make too much sense IMO ...

personally i think they should have went with ibeam on everywhere but the where the rope runs over if they wanted to save some weight (a moot point on sport draws)

one note is that these are rated to 7 KN OG which might put off some folks ... who knows, maybe someone will come out with 9-10 KN OG rated ones with a similar concept?

Ray Pinpillage wrote:I whipped in my driveway this morning, these could have really helped.

why that makes u a hardcore WHIPPAH ... now if you actually climbed for once and contributed something to a thread instead of trolling

;)

BearBreeder wrote:i suspect that for folks who buy wiregates generally to save weight it might be a bit heavy, but for workhorse sport draws it makes absolute sense

I like wire gates for all non-locking biners; they clip easier. However, the wide radius is a bigger benefit than the lack of a wire gate, so I would totally use these for sport instead of mine. My have a set of draws I only use for sport, 10 of them are wire/wire, then I have some random put together draws that are solid gates, but the majority are wires. Of note though, I often just use 2 draws for TR anchors on top of a sport route, and I always use draws that have BD Keylocks that have a wider rope bearing radius than the wire gate draws, specifically for this purpose. Sometimes I use lockers if folks are running laps. My whole trad rack is wire gates.

bearbreeder wrote: why that makes u a hardcore WHIPPAH ... now if you actually climbed for once and contributed something to a thread instead of trolling ;)

I whipped on my way to whip, dawg.

On a serious note, those carbines are lame for no other reason than weight and strength. By the time I wear out my beamz, yo, I'll just buy new draws. WC makes an HMS biner with the same design concept, Beal didn't think it up. In the mean time the market is moving in a different direction that this product.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: I whipped on my way to whip, dawg. On a serious note, those carbines are lame for no other reason than weight and strength. By the time I wear out my beamz, yo, I'll just buy new draws. WC makes an HMS biner with the same design concept, Beal didn't think it up. In the mean time the market is moving in a different direction that this product.

HMS locking binahs is a bit different than a non locking rope end one yo dawg ...

someone of yr towering MP "intellect" should get that i would have thought !!!

as to which way the market is "moving" .. only time will tell, not some non climbing driveway whippah on MP

of course with the amount on intrawebz climbing you do i expect yr binahs to "wear out" after the poles have melted !!! (i see you missed the concept that its easier on the ROPE)

;)

bearbreeder wrote: HMS locking binahs is a bit different than a non locking rope end one yo dawg ... someone of yr towering MP "intellect" should get that i would have thought !!! as to which way the market is "moving" .. only time will tell, not some non climbing driveway whippah on MP of course with the amount on intrawebz climbing you do i expect yr binahs to "wear out" after the poles have melted !!! (i see you missed the concept that its easier on the ROPE) ;)

I'll use smaller words so you can follow along. WC makes an HMS biner (there's probably others) with the weight saving spine and full stock bearing surfaces. The concept is identical, Beal did not think it up.

You said "im actually not quite sure why petzl went ibeam on the basket on their new spirits." The market wants lighter weight over service life, most climbers will never wear out a biner but they will spend tons of money on features they don't need. If all those new buyers aren't going to wear out a biner then Petzl is going to deliver lightweight. For my money I'd rather have lightweight and strength, I can afford to replace biners every few seasons.

You should lighten up a little, you come off very defensive.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: I'll use smaller words so you can follow along. WC makes an HMS biner (there's probably others) with the weight saving spine and full stock bearing surfaces. The concept is identical, Beal did not think it up. You said "im actually not quite sure why petzl went ibeam on the basket on their new spirits." The market wants lighter weight over service life, most climbers will never wear out a biner but they will spend tons of money on features they don't need. If all those new buyers aren't going to wear out a biner then Petzl is going to deliver lightweight. For my money I'd rather have lightweight and strength, I can afford to replace biners every few seasons. You should lighten up a little, you come off very defensive.

ill make it quite simple ... WC doesnt make a snapgate biner that has a wide rope bearing radius and a round stock ... in fact im not aware of any other manufacturer that does

perhaps you misunderstand ... the wider rope bearing radius makes it easier on the rope on falls, as well as less drag ... which may well reduce rope wear, which wears out MUCH faster than biners ... especially the new "stylish" skinny ropes

perhaps you misunderstand as well that there is more to the OVERALL weight of the draw than just a few shavings ....

perhaps this will get through to you ...



http://www.montania-sport.fr/2015/04/be-one-un-mousqueton-beal-qui-devrait-faire-du-bruit/

if one really wants to go significantly lighter you basically need to go with a true UL biner and dyneema dogbone ...

now whether these biners are successful or not is something that will be determined in time ... not something that will be determined on MP by you ... or me

You should stop trolling a little, you come off very trollish.

;)

bearbreeder wrote: the wider rope bearing radius makes it easier on the rope on falls, as well as less drag ...

That and a quarter still won't buy you a cup of coffee. There isn't an epidemic of worn out ropes from small biner radii calling for heavy rope end biners. Much to do about nothing.

bearbreeder wrote:perhaps you misunderstand as well that there is more to the OVERALL weight of the draw than just a few shavings ....

If that were true Beal wouldn't try to hide the weight of the large biner by using a mini biner on the anchor end. Their weight comparisons are to full size biner draws. Not to mention mini biners suck in and of themselves.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: That and a quarter still won't buy you a cup of coffee. There isn't an epidemic of worn out ropes from small biner radii calling for heavy rope end biners. Much to do about nothing.

from bluewater ...

Repeated falls over a carabiner such as commonly occur in sport climbing will also contribute to wearing out a rope. With these falls continually taken at the same spot, the rope will quickly show wear to both the sheath and core. Abrasion to the sheath, the sheath being pushed along the core and core strands stretching or breaking are all examples of the kind of wear a rope subjected to these conditions will exhibit.

The tighter radius a rope is bent around, the more wear a rope will sustain. Smaller radius carabiners and figure eight 8s are harder on ropes than larger radius ones.

theres been a folk here or two who recently posted something along the lines of "i took a single fall on my new rope and it developed a soft sport" ... of course its possible the ropes are crap, but generally companies like mammut make pretty good ropes

but then you know better than blue-watah of course

Ray Pinpillage wrote: If that were true Beal wouldn't try to hide the weight of the large biner by using a mini biner on the anchor end. Their weight comparisons are to full size biner draws. Not to mention mini biners suck in and of themselves.

every draw has advantages and disadvantages ... and different tradoffs ... most folks generally buy draws pre-made and use em that way

now whether a smaller biner up top is too small for yr PHAT fingahs (you should really go out and climb more !!!) ... thats your call ... im fine with biners such as the BD Oz size ...

the stupidity and ignorance is to generalize and say it simply sucks without trying it ... especially implying that for others

note that the top biner weights ~34.5g ... replacing that with a spirit means that your draw will weight a whole back breaking 4.5g more ... no doubt you would faint at that extra weight

time to go climb more i suggest !!!

;)

;)

I like how you keep changing the subject. Go buy Beal's new revolutionary draws. You don't need my permission and my opinion is obviously irrelevant to you. I'm sure the small anchor biner and heavy rope biner will be perfect.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:I like how you keep changing the subject. Go buy Beal's new revolutionary draws. You don't need my permission and my opinion is obviously irrelevant to you. I'm sure the small anchor biner and heavy rope biner will be perfect.

well i luuuv how your original subject was you taking whippers in yr driveway and nothing else ...

i mean it really matters to you to bash a few bears .. no ?

i like how you keep on running away from facts from actual sources ...

hows those BD sales numbers for those X4s coming along now ...

anyways time to pack up my gear for some lazy climbing tmr

;)

I'm in my tent letting you entertain me, I don't have to pack for tomorrow. Good night sweetheart, I'm going to count biner induced rope failures until I fall asleep...one, one, one, one...zzzzzzzzzz

Ray Pinpillage wrote:I'm in my tent letting you entertain me, I don't have to pack for tomorrow. Good night sweetheart, I'm going to count biner induced rope failures until I fall asleep...one, one, one, one...zzzzzzzzzz

hey i totally appreciate your dedication in "camping out' in a cardboard box in front of your gym !!!

i mean with yr rental harness and shoes you dont even need to pack =P

night night ... dont let those fuzzy wuzzy beahs bite ... i mean they really enjoy the fresh meat that took a "whippah" off their driveway

;)

bearbreeder wrote: i mean with yr rental harness and shoes you dont even need to pack

Rentals? Those cost money! I just ask random people if I can use there's in between flashes.