Vandalism Durango, Turtle Lake

Eric Whitbeck wrote:Best climber from the area, maybe the Southwest is Mountain Ute.

I see your Ute Mountain Ute and raise you an Anasazi good sir.

Ha, this website is like a train wreck on acid.
While I can see a bit of a link between a mocking comment about the "shards of pottery" and police killing innocent black men, it's quite a jump. Jesus Christ. If anything I thought he had displayed hi cultural knowledge about local archaeological sites and intertwined that with the vicious cycle of substance abuse present in native culture today.

mediocre wrote:Ha, this website is like a train wreck on acid. While I can see a bit of a link between a mocking comment about the "shards of pottery" and police killing innocent black men, it's quite a jump. Jesus Christ. If anything I thought he had displayed hi cultural knowledge about local archaeological sites and intertwined that with the vicious cycle of substance abuse present in native culture today.

You are very correct. Although this post started out as a call to action to clean up a beloved area, it quickly turned into a social commentary on an aspect of the Southwest, that I'm sure someone from Brooklyn has a lot of knowledge on.... I've seen too many people I grew up with go down the road of alcoholism and drug abuse. If you've never been to Shiprock, NM, I highly suggest you take a leisurely drive. I was deployed to Iraq for over 3 years in the Army, and found it extremely reminiscent of my time in Fallujah. Last time I was there, there was a toddler in a diaper walking alongside the road by himself. I pulled over and called the Nav police. Their comment was "oh, he got out again." So, forgive me if I'm somewhat cynical, although I don't care if you do.

So any updates on some police action? They go to the Fort, the cops have the license plate number... how are these guys not hanging from their toes from the watchcrystal belay with crows picking out their eyes by now???

I'll head out there sometime tomorrow to help clean up this mess. What a bunch of fucktards. Thanks to everyone who put time in helping to take care of the situation.

Steven Groetken wrote: I've seen too many people I grew up with go down the road of alcoholism and drug abuse. If you've never been to Shiprock, NM, I highly suggest you take a leisurely drive. I was deployed to Iraq for over 3 years in the Army, and found it extremely reminiscent of my time in Fallujah. Last time I was there, there was a toddler in a diaper walking alongside the road by himself. I pulled over and called the Nav police. Their comment was "oh, he got out again." So, forgive me if I'm somewhat cynical, although I don't care if you do.

Tim Lutz wrote:^ spend some time in the southwest and see how the natives respect their 'sacred land'

Let me make sure I've got this right: A bunch of kids vandalized a climbing area. And many Native American communities in the Southwest continue to struggle with an array of social issues related to poverty and health care. As a result, you have chosen to slander and mock the entire ethno-cultural group, and to respond derisively to anyone who expresses some concern about the reduction of individuals to one dimensional stereotypes. Is this correct? People do that in Brooklyn too, I guess, and I find it equally objectionable.

Thanks Kalil!!!! Grasping at straws... It's called an ivory tower brah.

The pedestal to preach to us what is right and whole

Kalil Oldham wrote: Let me make sure I've got this right: A bunch of kids vandalized a climbing area. And many Native American communities in the Southwest continue to struggle with an array of social issues related to poverty and health care. As a result, you have chosen to slander and mock the entire ethno-cultural group, and to respond derisively to anyone who expresses some concern about the reduction of individuals to one dimensional stereotypes. Is this correct? People do that in Brooklyn too, I guess, and I find it equally objectionable.

Let me get this right, someone from the East Coast doesn't understand something and instead of just admitting they don't understand something that attempt to use politically correct bullshit from the East Coast to steer the conversation in the way he feels fit. The problem is, you have no experience of the Southwest, you don't understand the Southwest, but you're commenting on it. If you understood the SW you would understand that Steve's comments are only slightly caustic and actually spot on, as there have been several local climbing areas closed over the past 10 years because of native American trash.

It's not about understanding the SW.
Yes, there are many social issues at play.
Thanks to all who are organizing to help with the cleanup, wish I could be there.
Yes, someone from elsewhere will not have seen what someone from the SW has seen.
Point is, folks keep making comments about how "They" are fucking up lands "They" deem sacred.
The only "They" of concern here obviously doesn't deem this slice of land sacred.
You can guess at whatever reason you like for that. It doesn't matter.
This thread is about cleaning up a climbing area, and preventing it from happening again if we can.
Alas, because of some "silly words" it has devolved into the train wreck on acid.
Now a lot of us look stupid.
Which is great for when we have to justify ourselves as a user group.

Thanks for the OP, and those who are working on cleaning this up.

peace.

Meh. Offended, offended, offended. That which I do not care, do not care, do not care. Too many folk have sand in their nether regions due to words, which keeps them focused on said areas instead of the stuff that really matters. I'll be out there cleaning up regardless if anyone shows or not due to my spicy comments.

P.S. Stephen Fry says it much better than I ever could.

THE MAN!

Thanks Luke! You're also pretty cool

Ok, the report was filed with the sheriff's department and they are looping the FLC Police in with the license plate information today. I will email these great pics provided here. thanks guys.

so it is okay to be a racist so long as you cleanup after yourself?
i'm glad you are cleaning up, but you wrote some things badly.
if you don't care what you say, well okay.

Brookey wrote:Ok, the report was filed with the sheriff's department and they are looping the FLC Police in with the license plate information today. I will email these great pics provided here. thanks guys.

Thanks--

Thanks Brookey.
And thanks to those of you who are going to help with the cleanup. I look forward to meeting some of you that I don't know in person. The scene in Durango changes so rapidly...

Whoah... this thread sure went off the rails. Anyway, Turtle sess tomorrow!

To those interested in cleanup-
The product you want is a biodegradable goop called Elephant Snot. It works real well. It's also about $100 a gallon, and only available through distributors. There is one in Denver. I can have some sent down. A gallon should do, by the looks of things. Gotta be careful what you use to clean sandstone- a chemical too harsh can mark the rock permanently. To those who wanna take action, let me know. It could be there by Wednesday or Thursday.

So MP gave me a message saying I can only make one more post in a 24 hr period. Better make it good.

I'll be out there at 9AM Saturday, April 24th. I posted on Facebook and got some good responses to folks showing up as well. I'm going to buy about 10-15 bottles of biodegradable remover, 4 more brushes and I'll bring about ten gallons of water. Hyundai Accent with veteran license plates. It might rain, so I could be wearing a pretty dope boy fresh snowboard jacket, if not, Motörhead t shirt and shorts.

I'll let you know Chris if it didn't work and we need to call in for the heavy stuff. Elephant snot looks kind of acrid, but if it's bio, I'll take your word for it.

Steve, it's good. We used it just a couple weeks ago to clean up graffiti on boulders in little cottonwood canyon outside SLC. I've already talked with the BCC and Access Fund, they can help, cuz it's pricey, yes.. If you have any luck with whatever you use, let me know. Just be careful, to all who try to clean up: Chems can be heinous on sandstone.

The La Plata Sheriff's Department and the FLC Police replied very quickly, but neither were able to find a match to the partial plate, unfortunately. Some members of the close knit Native American community at FLC who are boulderers and climbers have approached me about the vandalism post and they are on the lookout for the car or if the suspected men brag about the incident. Perhaps if word gets out, there could be some social pressure on these individuals to mend their ways.