Gunks AAC campground update?

Rob D. wrote: am I reading this wrong or for $38 do I still have to pay for a shower?

It's probably a very tiny rate to avoid having people take endless showers.

It's relatively common to have timed/pay showers at campgrounds.

losbill wrote:BTW Walter is right. Slime is definitely closed. I must have misunderstood the information I got during my phone call with the Preserve. MUA was not too crowded I had a site to myself both Friday and Saturday night. Parking lot was jammed 24 cars or so. Probably people sleeping in six or seven of the vehicles.

I wonder if the sleep-in-vehicle campers can move to the visitor center lot, since that is the overflow parking for the new campground? Not sure how much that will help people actually camping (in legal spots) at the MUA though. There doesn't seem to be enough space for cars for the allowed tent sites even if each car has 4 people. Mix in folks sleeping in their vehicles, or throwing down a bag in an unapproved spot and good luck trying to go into town to eat or check out rock and snow after climbing and being able to park when you return.

When they initially closed parking on the other side of 299 the ranger told me they didn't want the danger of people crossing the road. When I said there were not enough spaces on the same side, he recommended parking at the gravel area by the intersection or just leaving my car at the MUA and hiking up and back daily. Both of which require at least as many road crossings.

Kevin Heckeler wrote:It's relatively common to have timed/pay showers at campgrounds.

I wondered if they would include a token per person per day for paid campers, so you'd be on your own if you wanted to shower more than they set as the norm.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:NYC rates folks. trying to keep us rednecks away......

The private campgrounds around North Conway in NH charge between $35-$45 for a tent site. Most have coin operated showers.

Showers in Yosemite Valley and in Tuolumne Meadows are also additional cost above campground fees.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:Just look at that riff raff! the nerve of some climbers to hang out arround their vehicles have have a good time! See this is exactly how I took happies post. That this sort of thing that we have been doing since the dawn of climbing is no longer tolerated at the Gunks.

You're still not grasping the simple idea that it's not the hanging out that is the difficulty. It's the selfishness of hogging a second parking spot in a crowded lot.

Marc801 wrote: You're still not grasping the simple idea that it's not the hanging out that is the difficulty. It's the selfishness of hogging a second parking spot in a crowded lot.

If he grasped that, we would not be having this conversation in the first place. #dunningkruger

MojoMonkey wrote:When I said there were not enough spaces on the same side, he recommended parking at the gravel area by the intersection or just leaving my car at the MUA and hiking up and back daily. Both of which require at least as many road crossings.

Your problem was logic. You aren't supposed to spit the kool aid out!

MojoMonkey wrote: I wondered if they would include a token per person per day for paid campers, so you'd be on your own if you wanted to shower more than they set as the norm.

That would be a stellar idea, in favor of the campers. Unlikely to ever see the light of day. ;-)

It would be a good idea, but I am supposing that the people who run the numbers, and need to see the campground making a return on the investment, see it as a not-so-good idea.

Happiegrrrl wrote:It would be a good idea, but I am supposing that the people who run the numbers, and need to see the campground making a return on the investment, see it as a not-so-good idea.

Exactly, anything that favors the campers and takes from profits = no bueno. This very simple formula can be applied to any situation where money exchanges hands.

Also consider applying this formula to the impending parking problem - squeeze in more campers, make more money. Who cares where they park, that's their problem. We'll make them cross the road, one of the main reasons we cited for closing one of the camping spots up the street.

I will say - making Mohonk members eligible for the discounted pricing is a good thing. That may have been worked out well in advance, but until recently I don't recall reading anything official regarding it.

I wonder if the road is going to be widened or if we're just going to wait to see how many climbers get struck by cars. I'm used to walking from camping to climbing, which might not be as much of a reality with the new campground if my past experiences walking and hitching on 299 is an indicator.

Rob D. wrote:I wonder if the road is going to be widened or if we're just going to wait to see how many climbers get struck by cars. I'm used to walking from camping to climbing, which might not be as much of a reality with the new campground if my past experiences walking and hitching on 299 is an indicator.

You shouldn't have to be on the road too much. After crossing 299 at the MUA there is a trail that goes over to the visitor center. I believe it is ~3/4 miles from the MUA to the visitor center. Not sure if there is an extension over to the new campground.

The only trail map I can find is what is indicated on Open Street Map

No connection is shown from the AAC (listed as "campground under construction" in the link above). It would be nice if there is a trail extension from 299 across from the AAC campground over to the J&S Grafton trail by the visitor center.

I recall there was to be discussion at Gardiner town meetings of reducing the speed limit in that area. Don't know if that went through though.

There is a trail across the road from the campground, it is slightly up the road(in 44/55 direction) and I do not recall how many feet/yards, but it is not far.

Yes, people should exercise caution when crossing roads, and yes, people who are familiar with the area should exercise care when driving the entire length of 299, if they don't already. Besides people from the campsite, there have always been cyclists at risk, and deer, bears, turtles.

Regarding the pay-for showers, Kevin, I was more thinking "what does a water heater cost, are there water usage costs, maintenance for cleaning the bathrooms and showers"(they are quite nice, with large glossy tiles in forest green and high quality fixtures). I do not know for certain, of course, but perhaps the pay-for showers are also a way to offset some other costs not directly associated with the showers.

You seem bent toward a "wringing money" mindset, and I honestly do not feel that is what is going on. As was mentioned above, the cost is not off base when compared to other campgrounds.

Re: MP membership discount: I did not know about that until recently either. Thought it was only going to be an AAC membership discount. So yeah - whomever was behind the decision to give MP membership discount, a thank you!

Happiegrrrl wrote:You seem bent toward a "wringing money" mindset, and I honestly do not feel that is what is going on.

Ignorance is bliss? ;)

Most of the time the costs of operation don't hinge on secondary sources of revenue like vending machines, coin operated laundry machines, the sale of fire wood, emergency toiletries, snacks, or coin/token operated showers. These are 'profit' items. It's probably silly of me to think this wasn't a money making venture but a service to the area/community, since it's replacing current 'free' community services. This is more an observation than a gripe. It is perhaps I who is naive to the way of the world, or I haven't learned to bend over far enough for them to stick it all the way... you know.

I don't believe I am acting in ignorance, but out of having researched the various costs associated with businesses.

Over the years this site has already been through the "money-making schemes" of the MP and so far as I recall, all assertations of an overextended reach have been pretty well debunked. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course, so maybe we should wait and see what the cost of these showers are going to be before we decide whether the revenue stream is like the Coxing during drought or after a great rain.

Happiegrrrl wrote:...so maybe we should wait and see what the cost of these showers are going to be before we decide whether the revenue stream is like the Coxing during drought or after a great rain.

What fun is that? If MP only operated on fact it would be all of two pages long. ;)

Lighten up. :)

I went up to prep the AAC sites last weekend, it's a nice place, and the guys that run it are pretty awesome.

The sites are hardly right on top of each other and the ambiance is worlds better than MUA, that's for sure. It'll also be nice to fill up some water bottles since the stream by Ken's goes dry earlier than I think every year. and wash pots and pans after cooking in big stainless steel sink.

I hear some of the complaints but no solution is perfect. The sport is popular and it turns out other people like to bike, hike, birdwatch, do yoga, and lots of other things in the preserve as well.

The time of parking and climbing roadside has come and gone, as has sky top. Both before my time unfortunately, but there's still plenty of fun to be had. If you can't fit 4 in your car you can leave one at the lower lot. The hike up the stairmaster from the AAC took about 20 minutes with a full rack, rope, camera and lunch.

I have never seen a break-in at the gunks in general, but I would seriously doubt that would happen on the AAC property.

Cheers, and have a good season.

The trail from the camp site the the cliff is great. I lived at the house across the street a while back and used that trail every time I climbed. Walking to the cliff has such a nicer ambiance, and starting the day not fighting congested parking made the crowds seem less overwhelming.

ml242 wrote:I have never seen a break-in at the gunks in general, but I would seriously doubt that would happen on the AAC property. .

the string of them last year stopped, but it's not unheard of by any means.