Problems at Yonah

Cornelius Jefferson wrote: Sounds like you are equating LNT with just not going there at all. Interesting attitude. I'm guessing that's not how you saw it when YOU were climbing at these areas. So these places become the exclusive domain of the folks who enjoy trashing it? Just fine for them to leave plenty of traces though...why? Pre-ordained redneck birthright? You're really interested in true preservation? You sure about that?

Cornelius....strong name....weak grasp of the point.
You got it twisted if you think I am saying that LNT means not being somewhere....
I think we can all travel to the LNT website, review the tenets, and go from there.

My point is that there are people who would complain about one user group being a particular way, when the very complainers are, in this case....

1. Part of the problem....conjestion.
2. Entitled....maybe the lil' redneck boys are having this same conversation over Root Beers in the parking lot after school...."Can you believe those rock climbers climbing right up under our rappel? I mean, we go there all the time."

And that's really it.
Nothing else to see here....
Nothing else to grasp.
Calm yourself.

In no way did I say it's "okay" to leave traces....
I don't....
Good hunters don't.....
Road bikers shouldn't....
Pentecostal Mexicans who like to have services in the woods shouldn't...
Point being....who are any of y'all to complain about these fellows activity in the area....
Nobody.
Unless you been there a long time...

I.E....
Preordained, redneck birthright....
My family has been tromping through the woods in NE AL for 250 years.
So, mmmmmyeah.
It's like that here....
So, it's like that there for those boys, I would imagine.
Welcome to the South.

You got some sort of preordained climber birthright?

And by climber....in the South.....these days.....it generally means trespass-friendly, bolt-it-to-death, hipsters who sing songs of "access" and complain about others trampling their "special" places....
Like, um, Sandrock or The TWall.
Both used to be special.
Now they're covered in toilet paper, crag dogs, hammocks, boomboxes, and idiots.

I'm your Huckleberry.

Cornelius Jefferson wrote: Ok congestion and entitlement. its not just climbers who are demonstrating this behavior, correct? You're certainly within your rights to be annoyed with your fellow climbers...but blaming them for being poor stewards of the land while giving trash throwing, trundling teenagers a pass is a bit disingenuous wouldn't you say? One user group is directly engaging in behaviors that could maim or kill the other user group and your response is to tell the latter to LEAVE? Strange stuff coming from a preservation-minded rock climber. Must be more to the story of your clear distaste for other climbers. Oh and telling another grown-ass man to 'calm yourself' will definitely never have that effect and would probably get you slapped face to face, hoss. Watch it.

Normally I watch men of your caliber tremble in my presence....
Yet, you are the one resorting to insuations of violence.
I applaud your audacity.
Is your audacity what I am to be watching?

"Disingenuous" is a big word with all manner of interpolations.
Trash throwing is no good, even if rednecks do it, sappy as I may be about our culture.
LNT would suggest, also, that plain impact such as trail erosion, noise pollution, bolts, etc. are not super good for the environment.
How is promoting 1. dispersion and 2. ethical equality amongst equivalently harsh user groups 'disingenuous'?

I got lots of stories of distaste for climbers, but I got things to do.
See the commentary above.
It's pretty simple.

Let me know if you are ever around.

MP BEATDOWN 2015

where can I buy a ticket?

I think we're attempting to fix a problem that can't and won't be fixed. The areas that are being trampled are areas that have insanely easy access. Walk 10-20 minutes and your there. I think the point is that there are many other climbing areas that are better but have an approach that the normal bolt-clipping sport afficionado won't go to. To each their own. If you want an intrinsic wilderness experience, go to the wilderness. No manner of advocacy is going to change climbers impact. As humans, any actions we take, whether it be bolting a new route or making the approach to a less travelled crag will have an impact. Ben's point of dispersion is one of the best attempts we have at lessening our impact as climbers.

A.) No one condoned the behavior of the other user group.
B.) They don't frequent this forum to be called to task.
C.) You're the one who made totally meaningless threats from a safe distance...Hoss. What response was it that you expected...cowering in our corner of the internet from your digital badassness?, an apology?, an olive branch?...what?

Cornelius Jefferson wrote:Explain the 'ethical equality' you speak of...I must be missing where you took other user groups to task for destructive behavior. You seem to be focused on the negative impacts of climbers, and there are some for sure. Perhaps it would help if you listed these and what might be done to mitigate them other than just telling us to go climb somewhere else (where similar impacts WILL occur). Then, if it's not too much to ask could you address what might be done to actually preserve this place including how to mitigate destructive impacts from other users. This might be a more constructive approach than saying 'welcome to the south!' or 'LNT (anywhere around me)' Oh and thinly veiled threats are fun, keep em coming!

I haven't made a single threat, home boy.
Cause...I just don't.

I am fairly well known, have extensive history, and am well traveled here in this area.
What credentials do you possess such that anyone should heed your blather? None.
Why do you side on behalf of the climber with no regard for others? Entitlement?
My position is well known amonst concerned parties, which I struggle to view you as.

You have no sway over opinions or facts about what's happening down here.
So, yeah....
Calm thyself.

Where did Cornholio go?....I'm disappointed

Paul Barnes wrote:A.) You're the one who made totally meaningless threats from a safe distance...Hoss. What response was it that you expected...cowering in our corner of the internet from your digital badassness?, an apology?, an olive branch?...what?

Lol

Paul Barnes wrote:digital badassness

I am naming the next FA that I do this...

Right on Jeff...you're welcome.

How about this. I"m going to start a new non-profit its going to be called LAT. Leave A Trace. Them I'm going to make Cornelius Dildo the founding father. I think we need to institute the LAT ground rules and trundle stupid rednecks so they can join their trash at the base.

Over and out.

BHMBen wrote: Pentecostal Mexicans who like to have services in the woods.

You spelled cervezas wrong.

C. McGannon wrote: You spelled cervezas wrong.

Cervezas

All of the secrecy of crags in the south used to irk me, but now I understand. It keeps the retards away.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel that Ben is right on this. Yeah, throwing beer cans and other trash, spray painting rocks, tossing crap off the top of routes, and random auto burglary is nothing short of hooliganism, but in this situation, it is the redneck boys' land, and it has been that way for generations. They have more right to it than us tourist climbers, and as part of the landscape, they are just another objective hazard one needs to accept when one chooses to recreate in these areas. Sometimes, as a user group, we really are a bunch of entitled whiners.

At one cliff in Spain, there were a bunch of goats on top raining rocks on us. We had just as much right to complain about those goats as climbers do about local redneck boys down South.

Me too, Tom!

the schmuck wrote:You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel that Ben is right on this. Yeah, throwing beer cans and other trash, spray painting rocks, tossing crap off the top of routes, and random auto burglary is nothing short of hooliganism, but in this situation, it is the redneck boys' land, and it has been that way for generations. They have more right to it than us tourist climbers, and as part of the landscape, they are just another objective hazard one needs to accept when one chooses to recreate in these areas. Sometimes, as a user group, we really are a bunch of entitled whiners. At one cliff in Spain, there were a bunch of goats on top raining rocks on us. We had just as much right to complain about those goats as climbers do about local redneck boys down South.

This is a very articulate and concise delivery of my perspective.
Thank you, sir, for the insight.
The goats are a perfect example!!

the schmuck wrote:You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel that Ben is right on this. Yeah, throwing beer cans and other trash, spray painting rocks, tossing crap off the top of routes, and random auto burglary is nothing short of hooliganism, but in this situation, it is the redneck boys' land, and it has been that way for generations. They have more right to it than us tourist climbers, and as part of the landscape, they are just another objective hazard one needs to accept when one chooses to recreate in these areas. Sometimes, as a user group, we really are a bunch of entitled whiners. At one cliff in Spain, there were a bunch of goats on top raining rocks on us. We had just as much right to complain about those goats as climbers do about local redneck boys down South.

Hear Hear...well said. You're no schmuck. One of the very few that get it.

Welcome to the fray. Prepare to be berated, belittled, and challenged to a duel when, and if, Cornholio shows back up.

If you ever find yourself down here in God's Country, sir, Ben and I will gladly give you "the tour".

the schmuck wrote:it is the redneck boys' land, and it has been that way for generations. They have more right to it than us tourist climbers

Boy, it depresses the shit out of me that anyone would have such a sentiment. By that logic, I'd have the "right" to sit on the porch with my Glock and take pot shots at passing cars; after all, my family has been in my house for generations.

JL

The goats were the better example, John.
Potshots with a Glock?
Lil' melodramatic.