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Any value in sport leading first?

Original Post
Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

My climbing background consists of pretty much all gym TR/gym lead and ice TR/following multi pitch ice.

I find myself gravitating toward alpine routes, and mountaineering which have a mix of snow, ice, and rock. The rock is currently my weak area I feel, hence my interest in trad.

I have found an ice mentor as well as an experienced trad mentor.The question I want an answer to is this: Is there any value in me spending time leading on sport routes?

My trad mentor told me I should get a handful of sport leads in, and then really just work on following him on trad routes etc.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

I think leading sport, before trad, makes sense. You don't have to fiddle with gear, finding the right size piece, hoping your placement is good, etc. You get used to being on the sharp end, working through the moves and the fear, knowing that you have solid bolts to catch you.

Then, you add placing gear and route-finding into the mix. My two cents.

Ryan Hill · · Denver, CO · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 30

There is no harm in learning to lead on sport routes, there is also no harm in learning to lead on traditional gear. It really depends on what your preference is and what is available nearby to learn on.

If you are already leading gym routes the shift to outdoor sport is pretty easy, other than you might have to take it down a grade or two based on your local crags. Typically I view sport climbing as building strength, which will be hugely beneficial as you move towards more difficult objectives.

If you have plenty of options for leading trad locally then go do that, learning to place gear efficiently will be hugely beneficial if you do decide to follow your alpine climbing dreams.

Very few climbers are purely trad or sport climbers, we all dabble in a bit of everything. Variety leads to more learning and a wider skill set. If you are in the stage of being mentored you will benefit most from getting in a large base of climbing experience, that means go climb everything you have a chance to get your hands on.

Creed Archibald · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,016

I sport climbed for about 6 months before I trad climbed, simply because I didn't have a rack yet or a regular trad partner. Now I do both, but trad climbing and alpine rock is definitely my main love.

That said, I don't think it is necessary to sport climb before moving to trad. Up until about 20 years ago, that wasn't even an option. Everybody's first lead involved placing gear.

Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

Thanks for the replies. Lots of good recommendations there.

I may just mostly jump into the trad following role, and hope to lead some really moderate alpine routes towards the end of the season.

There are tons of nearby trad objectives, that is for sure.

WyomingSummits · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0
Shepido wrote:Thanks for the replies. Lots of good recommendations there. I may just mostly jump into the trad following role, and hope to lead some really moderate alpine routes towards the end of the season. There are tons of nearby trad objectives, that is for sure.
You have unlimited moderate trad nearby....go with a mentor and learn. Read everything you can get your hands on, especially anchors. Trad climbing in the alpine requires good anchor building skills.....something you can't work on while sport climbing. Sadly, a number of trad leaders I've gone out with have had marginal anchor building skills at best. Sad because everyone's lives are depending on it. Trad "leading" is not just the gear you place when you're moving.
EeT · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 0

I know a guy who started trad and never clipped bolts unless it was an anchor, but he has a far better lead head because of this(in my opinion).

Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668

Don't let your "mentor" turn you into a belay slave! If you are able to build a solid belay anchor, you are reading to start leading. Start sooner rather than later.

My observation is that many people who are tempted to "start out" sport leading, never make the commitment to the full game of leading.

Many people also trap themselves into feeling like every climb has to be pushing their gymnastic limit. While you are trying to learn and internalize the ropework side of leading, you really shouldn't be overly worried about the moves most of the time.

Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

Back in the day there was no "sport" climbing. If you climbed you lead on gear. As a result those guys were badasses.

Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

I'm not worried about becoming his belay slave. If anything I'm worried about finding enough time with him while he works on his own climbs. I appreciate the advice. A cool lead head is needed for ice (my favored medium) as well.

JohnnyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10

do it all!

and as doug says:

Doug Hemken wrote: Start sooner rather than later.
FWIW, I started leading ice, then trad, then sport, then gym.
. . · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 10

I'd say, whether you choose sport or trad, it's great to have a firm grasp of getting off the wall safely, both when things go right and when things go wrong (hopefully not injuries, but even simple things like rain, a sandbagged route, an incorrect climb height in the guidebook can complicate things). This might start off by learning to rappel off of bolts, then learning to clean routes on bolts which are less than half a rope length in height by rappelling. Do that until it feels normal - comfortable - and safe. progression can head towards building trad gear anchors, or using two ropes for long rappels... and on and on.

If you decide to start with trad, always know what you are climbing to. is it bolt, is it gear anchors? Ask yourself on route - do I have enough gear to finish this lead and build a trad anchor? If I keep climbing, will I go above the half way mark of the rope which complicates retreat?

Apologies if you're already pro at this.
Cheers.

Paul Hutton · · Nephi, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740

You've gotta have endurance to select and place gear! If you can't easily power up a 5.9 or 5.10 overhang without hanging, you're not ready to lead up a vertical face with trad gear!

Shepido · · CO · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 50

Schafer,

No worries. Not a pro at any of it. I've rappelled a few times into climbs both at Ouray and the backcountry. I'm getting more comfortable with it but I've never had to do it when it's been raining or snowing, or under duress.

Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

The value in sport climbing is that it may make you more confident on more difficult terrain when trad climbing, and that you may actually find it fun. Take it or leave it, if you don't like climbing sport routes, it is probably not worth doing so. There are better ways to train and practice than clipping bolts.

J. Serpico · · Saratoga County, NY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 140
Paul Hutton wrote:You've gotta have endurance to select and place gear! If you can't easily power up a 5.9 or 5.10 overhang without hanging, you're not ready to lead up a vertical face with trad gear!
I have no idea if I can power through a 5.10. I just like trad. In fact, I neither gym climb nor top rope much, and the other day was my first mostly bolted lead.

I think fitness is the least of your concerns and is way over hyped. I used to be a lot more fit, but a crappier leader (still crappy, but pushing out of the crappy zone slowly) . What changed for me was I stopped worrying about fitness and improved my mental and gear selection skills. Being able to calmly fire in bomber gear is more important than being strong.

My general rule is if you feel like you could (or you can) do the route of top rope, strength isn't the issue, you need to work on your leading skills, including the head game.
Brian M · · Long Beach, CA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 155

My two cents ? Do both, it'll develop your skills and make you a more well rounded climber.Plus they're both enjoyable in their own unique way, maybe you'll like one more than the other

Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668

Another reason that sport leading often does less to move people toward the full game of leading than many people expect is because the climbing itself is often a different style. Easier leads in most rock types tend to have more crack climbing, while easier sport leads tend to have more face climbing.

Paul Hutton · · Nephi, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740
J. Serpico wrote: I have no idea if I can power through a 5.10. I just like trad. In fact, I neither gym climb nor top rope much, and the other day was my first mostly bolted lead. I think fitness is the least of your concerns and is way over hyped. I used to be a lot more fit, but a crappier leader (still crappy, but pushing out of the crappy zone slowly) . What changed for me was I stopped worrying about fitness and improved my mental and gear selection skills. Being able to calmly fire in bomber gear is more important than being strong. My general rule is if you feel like you could (or you can) do the route of top rope, strength isn't the issue, you need to work on your leading skills, including the head game.
I guess, if you include standing on bulges and ledges while placing gear as a vertical route. I'm thinking "being prepared for the most demanding." If you're not fit, confident and knowing of your own abilities, and able to push the fear element of the free fall involved in leading above protection, then yer gonna die because you're not well-rounded when it comes to being self sustaining while you're all alone high up off the deck, shoving metal into rock. The gear works! However, the time may come when you're 8 feet above your last piece, lacking on gear, getting pumped, and you've either gotta have faith that a slot somewhere up above will match whatever you've got left, or have the forearms trained to downclimb to hangdog on your last piece to rest, or lower to pull a placed piece to broaden your inventory or re-equip from your pack on the belay station or on the deck. This attitude "you don't need to be fit". In the case where you don't need to be fit, you're seriously limiting your engagement in this hobby, and will only bring additional questions, such as "well, if Joe Schmoe says I don't need to be fit, then what else could I possibly be missing? I've got the best gear on the market, and I send vertical lines on top rope!" I can do the Spiderman crawl across ceilings and hang off one hand. But going up a vertical crack with some cams and nuts---that still scares the hell outta me. Going hand over hand in a crack and clipping bolts is already a challenge for me. I'm more comfortable with finger pockets and crimps.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

IMO if you don't do it all you are missing out.

Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668

If you are worried about pumping out on your first leads, you've picked the wrong routes. You will be so distracted by the gymnastics that you can't devote as much attention to the ropework.

Do you want to get to those climbs eventually? Sure. Should you start on those climbs? No.

A couple of fundamental leading skills are knowing yourself and reading the rock. You need to be able to look at the rock and see (most of) how you are going to climb it and how you are going to protect it. And you need to know yourself (mostly). Does this climb look easy? hard? What will be the crux for you? (Is there a plan B if you misjudge?)

Sport climbs are often equipped so as to minimize the importance of these fundamental skills (although they never go away).

Even as a beginning leader you need to think about these things. And as a beginner you should pick routes that you are (fairly) certain you can get up. Once you have gained a modicum of fluency and grace, you can/should start pushing yourself into more difficult terrain.

You need to learn to judge conditions and yourself mostly correctly. Otherwise you limit yourself to terrain that others have prepped for you.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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