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How to become a guide

S. Holmes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 15
Jan Tarculas wrote: Yea that was pretty bad. Some here have lost love ones to these accident reports.
Accident reports serve as a learning tool for climbers. Participating in a rescue to the best of your ability or simply observing it is a great learning process. Analyzing accident reports should not be looked at as offensive or disrespectful to the loved ones of the victims. It's hopefully to prevent future accidents or epics for those still around. It's a reality check. If it scares you or makes you uncomfortable take a closer look at your role as a potential victim or a rescuer when you may need all the skills you've learned.

Too many people taking climbing as a past time, those who don't belong in climbing as well. It can turn pretty unforgiving as evidenced by a thread I started that was deleted by admins about a party with a dog at a crag that ended up in an accident. Too bad politics got in a way of learning from others mistakes and essentially sharing climbing experiences.
Who Dat · · Spinning Rock, MW · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 5
S. Holmes wrote: Accident reports serve as a learning tool for climbers. Participating in a rescue to the best of your ability or simply observing it is a great learning process. Analyzing accident reports should not be looked at as offensive or disrespectful to the loved ones of the victims. It's hopefully to prevent future accidents or epics for those still around. It's a reality check. If it scares you or makes you uncomfortable take a closer look at your role as a potential victim or a rescuer when you may need all the skills you've learned. Too many people taking climbing as a past time, those who don't belong in climbing as well. It can turn pretty unforgiving as evidenced by a thread I started that was deleted by admins about a party with a dog at a crag that ended up in an accident. Too bad politics got in a way of learning from others mistakes and essentially sharing climbing experiences.
Care to elaborate on this incident? ...Again?
kevin graves · · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 5

I see both points of view; I'm barely old school with my first climb in 1975 but it WAS with a guide. I caught the bug and read Freedom of the Hills and both of Robbins' Rockclimbing books. So I taught myself and learned from others and survived the process. My point is that there is a place for both methods and some times they work together.

Also, I've used a guide on biz trips where I had no time to find a partner or study an area. If not for guides; I never would have climbed at Smith Rock and would have missed exploring Red Rocks for the first time. Guides can teach (up to student as always to retain and practice the lesson) or guides can just be a convenience. Guides need to resist "swarming an area" and hanging top ropes on everything or let people know they can take a ride on the toprope or pull the rope if they are going to lead the climb that is vacant. I've met a lot of cool guides who were great resources about local lines and were all too happy to share.

Lastly, another great way to learn is to join a climbing club where you can learn from the veterans or just call out an experienced climber and ask for help. Most are happy to pass on what they learned--usually from an older climber themselves.

S. Holmes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 15

Ok here it goes. We were hiking out of a gully on the way back from Power Line crag at Mt Erie and saw 3 teens with a small dog at a rap station asking us where the way down is. Since we are new in the area we urged them to stay out of the gully especially with the dog. They were going to rap in and were not able to do so because of the dog. We urged them to look for a less steep trail. As we were leaving one of the kids was waving a cop's car in that was followed by a fire truck and 2 ambulances. My assumption is that there was a fall most likely related to them trying to descent the gully against our advice.

I'm not against guides... what I mean by some people don't belong in climbing is their mindset. Taking it lightly and not their physical ability or disability to climb.

In SCUBA diving some instructors will not certify people regardless of the fees they pay based on their performance and mostly their attitude. I think that's totally right.

In general people take diving more seriously though. As in you never hear about sandbagging each other on vis or conditions, stealing each others gear and such...Maybe just a different crowd. People die equally in both sports so some parallels can be definitely drawn there.

Nate KSD · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 20
S. Holmes wrote:In SCUBA diving some instructors will not certify people regardless of the fees they pay based on their performance and mostly their attitude. I think that's totally right. In general people take diving more seriously though. As in you never hear about sandbagging each other on vis or conditions, stealing each others gear and such...Maybe just a different crowd. People die equally in both sports so some parallels can be definitely drawn there.
I can definitely agree that there's alot less shitbags in scuba, but I think its also dependent on the amount of money you have to spend just to get a starter's set of gear. I've also heard stories that dive shops won't refill your tanks unless they have an up to date inspection tag on them, and somewhere along the line you will be required to have certifications to have your tanks filled.

In both climbing and scuba, life threatening mistakes are not identifiable to noobs until they are already in trouble, so there are definitely some similarities, but scuba definitely is the easier sport to make a severe mistake, which usually involves going too deep for your type of air mix, miscalculating oxygen supply, or just ignorance of how some equipment functions.

The mindset thing is hard, because some people will never learn to respect danger until its too late. Its usually just an age thing, everyone probably knows the story of some kid they knew in highschool that took their first car out for a spin, doing 100+ through the neighborhood and then smacked into a pole, its a story I've heard more than once. Its the same shit in climbing really, because of especially what you said, they view it purely as a pasttime and forget about the discpline part.

People who are adults and continue to disregard danger are the definition of arrogant, and have no place on my rope.
Who Dat · · Spinning Rock, MW · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 5
Nate KSD wrote: I can definitely agree that there's alot less shitbags in scuba, but I think its also dependent on the amount of money you have to spend just to get a starter's set of gear. I've also heard stories that dive shops won't refill your tanks unless they have an up to date inspection tag on them, and somewhere along the line you will be required to have certifications to have your tanks filled. In both climbing and scuba, life threatening mistakes are not identifiable to noobs until they are already in trouble, so there are definitely some similarities, but scuba definitely is the easier sport to make a severe mistake, which usually involves going too deep for your type of air mix, miscalculating oxygen supply, or just ignorance of how some equipment functions. The mindset thing is hard, because some people will never learn to respect danger until its too late. Its usually just an age thing, everyone probably knows the story of some kid they knew in highschool that took their first car out for a spin, doing 100+ through the neighborhood and then smacked into a pole, its a story I've heard more than once. Its the same shit in climbing really, because of especially what you said, they view it purely as a pasttime and forget about the discpline part. People who are adults and continue to disregard danger are the definition of arrogant, and have no place on my rope.
SCUBA is not nearly as laissez fair as climbing. Generally most divers are either PADI certified or have some other certification. The stakes are a lot higher and a simple mistake like a runaway ascent can easily kill you. Getting lost in a cave is another way.

Does this not strengthen the argument against guides?
Climbing is orders of magnitude safer..

The laissez fair nature of climbing is what attracted me to it and I still really enjoy the let it be attitude. I would hate to see guides/corporations poison climbing with personal certification requirements, increased access fees, or the overall privatization of the 'sport.'
Ryan G · · San Diego · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 275
Who Dat wrote: SCUBA is not nearly as laissez fair as climbing. Generally most divers are either PADI certified or have some other certification. The stakes are a lot higher and a simple mistake like a runaway ascent can easily kill you. Getting lost in a cave is another way. Does this not strengthen the argument against guides? Climbing is orders of magnitude safer.. The laissez fair nature of climbing is what attracted me to it and I still really enjoy the let it be attitude. I would hate to see guides/corporations poison climbing with personal certification requirements, increased access fees, or the overall privatization of the 'sport.'
I'm pretty sure rock fall, not tying in correctly, not setting rappel correctly, not checking rap anchors, not putting gear above belay station, not....can all get you killed pretty quick in climbing. Not to engage in which is the most dangerous sport spray but there both pretty dangerous when done wrong, or even right. Next topic
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
Ryan-G wrote: I'm pretty sure rock fall, not tying in correctly, not setting rappel correctly, not checking rap anchors, not putting gear above belay station, not....can all get you killed pretty quick in climbing. Not to engage in which is the most dangerous sport spray but there both pretty dangerous when done wrong, or even right. Next topic
The distinction is you are 100% reliant on the equipment underwater which generally only happens when rappelling in climbing. And the systems/gear you are relying on for SCUBA is orders of magnitude more complex, technical and finicky than in climbing. There are also numerous highly technological and subtle physiological challenges associated with time-at-depth which do not exist in climbing.
Ryan G · · San Diego · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 275
Healyje wrote: The distinction is you are 100% reliant on the equipment underwater which generally only happens when rappelling in climbing. And the systems/gear you are relying on for SCUBA is orders of magnitude more complex, technical and finicky than in climbing. There are also numerous highly technological and subtle physiological challenges associated with time-at-depth which do not exist in climbing.
Heard. And agreed. Just think that climbing is pretty dangerous too, at least the alpine/trade part.
Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71

Nick, I salute you!

other · · San Diego, CA · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 15

Nick can you safely lead 5.11 multi pitch crack 5 star josh and idyllwild routes? What's your day rate? How about rate for The Nose?

other · · San Diego, CA · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 15

Nick? Come back Nick! Are you a climbing guide now?
I have no idea if my hired climbing instructors from the 1980's had insurance or certs. Didn't know then that such a thing existed.
My scuba instructors did have everything.
Scuba is probably as dangerous as climbing/bouldering/mountaineering and luckily climbing doesn't (yet) have a mandatory cert/license required to buy gear. Scuba doesn't either but has a mandatory cert required to fill tanks and to buy charter boat dives.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
other wrote:Nick can you safely lead 5.11 multi pitch crack 5 star josh and idyllwild routes? What's your day rate? How about rate for The Nose?
Reverse troll wins. Troll walks away.
This is like getting a $5 check out of the son of a Saudi prince so you can send him the money order for $1000 for a solicitor to prove his heritage so he can pay you back.
Sean Burke · · Concord, CA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 75

This seems ridiculous. Tie the rope around your waist, Make sure it's hemp, drink tons of whiskey and jump.

Sam Keller · · Mallorca, ES · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 30

I'm a guide and I can say that the majority of people who come to climb are "never have I evers". Most adults are just doing it for the experience; a desire to have a baseline understanding of the absolute basics of rope work and movement.

Scariest clients are gym climbers because they usually can't give a lead belay and want to to toprope stuff I can conceive of falling on.

Guiding is a great way to make money being a dirtbag.

Gasstoner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 135

All I wanted was a pepsi.

BigB · · Red Rock, NV · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 340

....just one Pepsi....and she wouldn't give it to me!

other · · San Diego, CA · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 15

Nick have you met Chongo Chuck or Tucker Tech or Happppiegrrrl?

Gasstoner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 135

Possibly

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Bryan Manning wrote:....just one Pepsi....and she wouldn't give it to me!
I went to your institutional learning facilitities
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern California
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