Mountain Project Logo

Falling: good or bad?

Bill M · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317

Mathais,

This is an area I could do better at. I find myself "taking" rather than falling. Some sage advice I got from a solid 5.11+/.12- trad leader with >30 years of experience was the following: "You have to KNOW what you can / can not climb and the only way to know that is to climb routes that you literally fall off of." So, what I should be doing is NEVER taking on top rope, almost never taking while seconding and sport climbing (assuming the fall is clean.) Trad is a different matter, I have taken a few longer, unexpected, 20-30 falls over my life and while I was not hurt its not something go looking for! On the other hand there is nothing wrong with getting a couple of good pieces of gear in below a crux and going for it (assuming the fall is clean.)

Here is what I would do:
1) Top rope the sh*t out of some routes 1-2 grades harder than you climb and get used to actually feeling what it is like to climb at your limit and peel off.
2) Go to Monastery, stick clip the first bolt on Tabula Rasa or Stolen Land and go for it. These climbs are nearly vertical, have no ledges and are hard enough you just might not be able to on-site then.

Austin Eddy · · Chattanooga, TN · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 11

If you are trying to get stronger at sport climbing and you aren't falling often, then you aren't going to get much stronger. The key to get from 5.11+ climbing to 5.12+ or harder is to try things you think will be too hard, try your absolute best, and fail. Keep failing and falling until eventually those routes don't feel quite so hard. Then you can send them and find something else to suck at!

At least that is my experience with climbing. Everybody I know that climbs 5.13s and such very rarely says "take." They climb until they send or fall and if they are climbing something at their limit, they don't send it very quickly, so anytime they go out and climb, they are falling constantly.

This wasn't very concise, but if you want to get stronger and send harder grades, you are going to fall, and that is a good thing.

Limpingcrab DJ · · Middle of CA · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,055

Never fall while bouldering!

Also, that feeling of "being out of control" will decrease once you fall more. I still avoid it and scream TAKE and grab gear because I'm a big wuss, but that's me.

WyomingSummits · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

If you have the mentality that you can't/won't fall you'll end up doing something stupid like not looking ahead for crux areas and placing gear accordingly, not placing for upward pulls, and not keeping the rope on the correct side of your legs in case of a directional fall....all of which require practice, repetion, and awareness that you could pop off at any time. I have pulled many flakes off in the alpine that I felt were fairly solid.....you just never know.

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

I enjoy bouldering but the every fall is a ground fall can be a problem.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

climbing friend,

You must be doing the falling. You must not be afraid if you have good gear and clean falls. Many people claim to not be afraid yet are terrified, never fall, suck, and pretend they would not like to do the chasing of the numbers and are happy to just suck.

You must be afraid if you do not have good gear and clean falls. You must not be doing the falling. You must be doing the committing feeling solid or the backing off of the climbing rocks.

You must eat cheesesteaks and fishheads for flash.

Ryan M Moore · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 35

^ And that settles that.

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

Aleks really did settle it.

But I feel like beating a dead horse: this is a known thing in climbing, as I said before. The best climbers fall all the time. Of course they don't when they shouldn't, etc, etc, yada yada yada, but becoming a good climber by today's standards more or less requires that you take falls. At least if you want to get good in anything resembling the modern time frames.

Once you've learned what a "safe" fall is, whip away.

David Gibbs · · Ottawa, ON · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2
JulianG wrote: I thought most climbers are brained damaged to begin with :-) Most climbers I know climb 1 or 2 grades easier on trad routes than on sport routes
That is to be expected -- not as a mental thing, but as a straight-up physical thing, and for two reasons. Placing gear is more physically demanding than clipping bolts, because it takes longer. So, you have to hold on longer. So you get tired and pumped in less distance up the climb. And, second, you are carrying more weight, possibly substantially more weight on a trad climb. Ok, if you have all the gear dialed for a red-point attempt, you may not have THAT much more weight for a short climb, but if you're going after a typical trad climb with your full rack, you could easily be hauling 15-25 pounds of extra weight through all the moves, and that will make anything harder.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

a few things to add ...

- you shouldnt fall when you are new at trad (and even moderate sport) ... i see tons of folks who while they may be fine the individual piece placements, dont understand how gear behaves as a system ... multiple piece sequential gear failures seem to be more and more common out here, and on da intrawebz i "blew multiple X4 (or other) cams out of a perfect crack" is any example

- you shouldnt fall if yr belayer is new or uncertain ... any "safe" fall can be made unsafe by poor belaying, not just getting dropped, but also by the improper type of catch ... anyone who climbs a decent amount of sport has been or knows someone who injured an ankle with a hard catch even on "safe" routes

- you can also make any "safe" fall unsafe yourself ... if you dont have experience managing the rope and yr feet in a good position, dont fall no matter how "safe" the climb ... even with proper management laybacks by their nature also have a higher chance of flipping, as do runnouts

- theres a big difference between taking a planned whipper and climbing as hard as you can and falling as a consequence ... very different mental aspect as one is entirely expected, tons of folks can do the former, not as many the latter

as an example of an fatality on one of my favorite climbs which has BOMBER gear if you place correctly ... its a lot of folks first 5.10 lead out here

A climber was on Flying Circus at the Smoke Bluffs; fell; blew two pieces of gear and decked.

....

No helmet, "practice fall" on a blue alien. Jumped from two feet above pro. Alien blows, next piece stops him from decking. Cause of trauma was flipping upside down and hitting head. Can't speculate on cause of flip, belayer says the rope was not behind the leg.
Inexperience combined with bad judgement.


squamishclimbing.com/squami…

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
JulianG wrote: Most climbers I know climb 1 or 2 grades easier on trad routes than on sport routes
I think of trad leading grades as my trad onsight ability and sport leading grades as my sport redpoint ability. Am I out of the mainstream on this?

My trad and sport grades would be closer if I used the same standard. Not that my trad grade is particularly high anyway.
chris vultaggio · · The Gunks · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 535

If you're not confident in your gear that means you're not okay with it holding a fall. If you're not ok with your gear holding a fall you shouldn't be leading.

  • for the most part - obviously contingent upon rock/placements.

I've taken a hundred or more falls on gear in the past 3-4 years, including sizeable whippers at crags worldwide, and have never ripped a piece (except for a small nut while aiding). Gear works - the challenge is getting leaders to place it right and have confidence in those placements.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Mark E Dixon wrote: I think of trad leading grades as my trad onsight ability and sport leading grades as my sport redpoint ability. Am I out of the mainstream on this? My trad and sport grades would be closer if I used the same standard. Not that my trad grade is particularly high anyway.
That my rule of thumb, but it relay depends where you climb. Climbing at the gunks is like climbing sport with a rack. So you can climb trad closer to your limit and not worry about gear. At least on the easier climbs.
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

If you like climbing little weak climbs over and over again, by all means, create a nice little lie for yourself about how you ain't scared, you just don't want to fall.

If you want to access the really good routes you gotta be willing to push yourself till you fall.

What you earn is the ability to warm up and not fall on the projects of people who refuse to push themselves.

The levels to this game are amazing, but the more you fall, the more awesome routes you earn.

Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

JQ,

There is absolutely nothing true about anything you said. It is only a story created by the mind to satisfy the ego.

Falling on lead frequently doesn’t mean you’re trying harder. It does not make you a better climber. It is not a requirement to progress through grades and get stronger (everybody knows hangboarding is the only way to do that). It is not mandatory to access more awesome routes, whatever you think those are.

Scott O · · Anchorage · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 70

Falling is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.

Jack Quarless · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0
Long Duk Dong wrote:JQ, There is absolutely nothing true about anything you said. It is only a story created by the mind to satisfy the ego. Falling on lead frequently doesn’t mean you’re trying harder. It does not make you a better climber. It is not a requirement to progress through grades and get stronger (everybody knows hangboarding is the only way to do that). It is not mandatory to access more awesome routes, whatever you think those are.
So what you're saying is that you like weak little climbs and are afraid to fall? Caus we all know JQ is spot on here, taking every time you are pushing yourself does not result in progression. It sounds like you have indeed created a story to satisfy your ego, lol.
Zach Alles · · Denver, Co · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 5
Patrick Shyvers wrote:All depends on what the fall will look like. Most any fall in the gym is inconsequential. A clean fall on bolts on a flat face outdoors is no sweat. But cheese-grater'ing down a jagged slab, bouncing off a ledge, or falling on sketchy/runout gear are very low on my todo list. If push comes to shove though, it's good to be comfortable with taking a fall. You are more likely to get hurt if you won't push off from the wall when you know you are coming off.
That's my take on it. Personally if I'm sporting climbing and it's generally clean and 2-3 bolts up, I'd like to be taking some falls. I'm still getting my trad head together but I'd like to fall on some gear soon more for the mental trust than anything. But again preferably it'd be on something where you're not gonna deck or cheesegrate. Most recently I've heard the "the leader must never fall" in reference to ice, which makes intuitive sense. But I suppose with enough knowledge and confidence one could feel "comfortable" falling on ice.

Overall though I feel like falling really ties the whole system together. If you don't want to fall that could imply that you might not trust the gear, so perhaps ironically I feel much safer after a few good falls.

As a side note Steve Fischer, the founder of the guiding company mountain madness took a hundred or so feet ice fall and when he got to the ground he remarkably lived, though he apparently had an ice axe lodged through his calve.
Zach Alles · · Denver, Co · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 5
Long Duk Dong wrote: It is not a requirement to progress through grades and get stronger (everybody knows hangboarding is the only way to do that).
Though I agree with your mind/ego thing (people can climb whatever they want, who cares but them right?) hangboarding isn't the only way to get stronger. If you climb hard routes to the point of failure (i.e. falling) that gives a similar effect in training the forearms in a much less boring environment. I've come to despise training regimins as really I just want to be outside hanging out with friends. On beautiful springs days like today, I'd hate to inside on a hangboard trying to satisfy my ego, thinking that if I do this I'll finally be strong enough.
Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175
Budd Rick wrote: Though I agree with your mind/ego thing (people can climb whatever they want, who cares but them right?) hangboarding isn't the only way to get stronger. If you climb hard routes to the point of failure (i.e. falling) that gives a similar effect in training the forearms in a much less boring environment. I've come to despise training regimins as really I just want to be outside hanging out with friends. On beautiful springs days like today, I'd hate to inside on a hangboard trying to satisfy my ego, thinking that if I do this I'll finally be strong enough.
Climbing friend,

I believe the doing of the hangboarding is for the peoples with too much sexual frustration.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "Falling: good or bad?"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.