Falling: good or bad?
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Mathais, |
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If you are trying to get stronger at sport climbing and you aren't falling often, then you aren't going to get much stronger. The key to get from 5.11+ climbing to 5.12+ or harder is to try things you think will be too hard, try your absolute best, and fail. Keep failing and falling until eventually those routes don't feel quite so hard. Then you can send them and find something else to suck at! |
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Never fall while bouldering! |
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If you have the mentality that you can't/won't fall you'll end up doing something stupid like not looking ahead for crux areas and placing gear accordingly, not placing for upward pulls, and not keeping the rope on the correct side of your legs in case of a directional fall....all of which require practice, repetion, and awareness that you could pop off at any time. I have pulled many flakes off in the alpine that I felt were fairly solid.....you just never know. |
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I enjoy bouldering but the every fall is a ground fall can be a problem. |
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climbing friend, |
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^ And that settles that. |
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Aleks really did settle it. |
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JulianG wrote: I thought most climbers are brained damaged to begin with :-) Most climbers I know climb 1 or 2 grades easier on trad routes than on sport routesThat is to be expected -- not as a mental thing, but as a straight-up physical thing, and for two reasons. Placing gear is more physically demanding than clipping bolts, because it takes longer. So, you have to hold on longer. So you get tired and pumped in less distance up the climb. And, second, you are carrying more weight, possibly substantially more weight on a trad climb. Ok, if you have all the gear dialed for a red-point attempt, you may not have THAT much more weight for a short climb, but if you're going after a typical trad climb with your full rack, you could easily be hauling 15-25 pounds of extra weight through all the moves, and that will make anything harder. |
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a few things to add ... |
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JulianG wrote: Most climbers I know climb 1 or 2 grades easier on trad routes than on sport routesI think of trad leading grades as my trad onsight ability and sport leading grades as my sport redpoint ability. Am I out of the mainstream on this? My trad and sport grades would be closer if I used the same standard. Not that my trad grade is particularly high anyway. |
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If you're not confident in your gear that means you're not okay with it holding a fall. If you're not ok with your gear holding a fall you shouldn't be leading.
I've taken a hundred or more falls on gear in the past 3-4 years, including sizeable whippers at crags worldwide, and have never ripped a piece (except for a small nut while aiding). Gear works - the challenge is getting leaders to place it right and have confidence in those placements. |
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Mark E Dixon wrote: I think of trad leading grades as my trad onsight ability and sport leading grades as my sport redpoint ability. Am I out of the mainstream on this? My trad and sport grades would be closer if I used the same standard. Not that my trad grade is particularly high anyway.That my rule of thumb, but it relay depends where you climb. Climbing at the gunks is like climbing sport with a rack. So you can climb trad closer to your limit and not worry about gear. At least on the easier climbs. |
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If you like climbing little weak climbs over and over again, by all means, create a nice little lie for yourself about how you ain't scared, you just don't want to fall. |
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JQ, |
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Falling is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so. |
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Long Duk Dong wrote:JQ, There is absolutely nothing true about anything you said. It is only a story created by the mind to satisfy the ego. Falling on lead frequently doesnt mean youre trying harder. It does not make you a better climber. It is not a requirement to progress through grades and get stronger (everybody knows hangboarding is the only way to do that). It is not mandatory to access more awesome routes, whatever you think those are.So what you're saying is that you like weak little climbs and are afraid to fall? Caus we all know JQ is spot on here, taking every time you are pushing yourself does not result in progression. It sounds like you have indeed created a story to satisfy your ego, lol. |
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Patrick Shyvers wrote:All depends on what the fall will look like. Most any fall in the gym is inconsequential. A clean fall on bolts on a flat face outdoors is no sweat. But cheese-grater'ing down a jagged slab, bouncing off a ledge, or falling on sketchy/runout gear are very low on my todo list. If push comes to shove though, it's good to be comfortable with taking a fall. You are more likely to get hurt if you won't push off from the wall when you know you are coming off.That's my take on it. Personally if I'm sporting climbing and it's generally clean and 2-3 bolts up, I'd like to be taking some falls. I'm still getting my trad head together but I'd like to fall on some gear soon more for the mental trust than anything. But again preferably it'd be on something where you're not gonna deck or cheesegrate. Most recently I've heard the "the leader must never fall" in reference to ice, which makes intuitive sense. But I suppose with enough knowledge and confidence one could feel "comfortable" falling on ice. Overall though I feel like falling really ties the whole system together. If you don't want to fall that could imply that you might not trust the gear, so perhaps ironically I feel much safer after a few good falls. As a side note Steve Fischer, the founder of the guiding company mountain madness took a hundred or so feet ice fall and when he got to the ground he remarkably lived, though he apparently had an ice axe lodged through his calve. |
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Long Duk Dong wrote: It is not a requirement to progress through grades and get stronger (everybody knows hangboarding is the only way to do that).Though I agree with your mind/ego thing (people can climb whatever they want, who cares but them right?) hangboarding isn't the only way to get stronger. If you climb hard routes to the point of failure (i.e. falling) that gives a similar effect in training the forearms in a much less boring environment. I've come to despise training regimins as really I just want to be outside hanging out with friends. On beautiful springs days like today, I'd hate to inside on a hangboard trying to satisfy my ego, thinking that if I do this I'll finally be strong enough. |
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Budd Rick wrote: Though I agree with your mind/ego thing (people can climb whatever they want, who cares but them right?) hangboarding isn't the only way to get stronger. If you climb hard routes to the point of failure (i.e. falling) that gives a similar effect in training the forearms in a much less boring environment. I've come to despise training regimins as really I just want to be outside hanging out with friends. On beautiful springs days like today, I'd hate to inside on a hangboard trying to satisfy my ego, thinking that if I do this I'll finally be strong enough.Climbing friend, I believe the doing of the hangboarding is for the peoples with too much sexual frustration. |