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Falling: good or bad?

Original Post
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

So I've heard "The lead climber must not fall.", and I've also heard " If you're not falling, you're not climbing hard enough."

I'm sure there's a lot to consider whether it's sport, trad, or bouldering. What are your thoughts?

Personally, I don't like falling. I don't like feeling out of control and regardless of the good bolt or bomber pro I may have (or the top rope anchor), even with a good belayer I'm not a fan unless it's a planned fall in the gym.

Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

Falling is neither good nor bad. "Planned falls" = jumping off.

AndyMac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 1,123

Falling is the best part of climbing. OK, maybe 2nd to sending. But if it wasn't for falling, what would the point of climbing be?

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665

I've taken maybe 50 lead falls in my life, on real rock. Probably fewer.
That represents about 26 years of climbing.
They come in groups- when I feel like pushing myself a bit more.

Otherwise, I'm happy being a 'solid' climber at my level and don't feel like working routes. It's just not the point to me.

If someone told me I wasn't climbing hard enough, I guess I'd say: "OK, but I'm enjoying what I am doing." I don't feel compelled to either fall or completely avoid it. I'm generally and onsight climber.

jhammer03 · · Manassas · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 45

My .02...

If there is any doubt at all about whether or not your pro will keep you off the ground, don't fall. If you're 100% certain your pro (bolts, gear, or whatever) is going to keep you off the ground, don't be afraid to go for "it" for whatever "it" means to you.

I think the mind set of "leaders never fall" comes from an older time where gear placements and or quality was minimal. Similarly, the "not falling == not climbing hard enough" mentality comes from a more modern place where bolts are plenty and gear tech is pretty advanced.

Really, who cares? I used to push everyone I climbed with to climb as hard as they could - all the time. I pushed my self even harder...

When I started, I quickly adopted the "if you're not falling, you're not climbing hard enough" mentality. Now, EVERYONE I started climbing with has stopped climbing due to some tendon/ligament related injury. It sucks. I feel like an azzHole. I know they had a choice, and I know that we were having fun and no one was doing anything they didn't want to do, but now I'm left missing the best part of the climbing experience - enjoying the time outdoors with the people that mean the most to me. The focus should have been on enjoying what we had more than progression.

I think that people need to be less concerned with things like this. Personally, I'd be held back if everyone I climbed with had the mentality of "never fall". On the other hand, I contributed to ending climbing careers by having the "push it till you fall" mentality.

When it comes to topics like this, you have to do what's right for you and respect others doing what's right for them.

Walt Barker · · Western NC · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 425

Knowledge is a powerful thing. Falls happen. "The leader must not fall," is tricky because, if you have some knowledge of what is involved with falling, you can make better decisions in situations that matter. experience with falling isn't just for you; it is very important that the belayer have knowledge of potential problems and what kind of catch to provide. There's more to it than just locking-off.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

To me falling or not falling is not really the point. I'm happiest with my climbing when I accurately assess the risk and climb accordingly. That mean when I believe it to be safe, I climb accordingly and am willing to take the risk of falling. If I assess that the situation is a no fall zone, then I climb accordingly (or not as the case may warrant). Accurately matching the actual risk and perceived risk, and acting accordingly is what gives me the greatest satisfaction. For me, the "acting" is the biggest challenge and in reality I should be more willing to fall than I am.

jacob m s · · Provo, Utah · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 135

For me if i'm bouldering i need to be falling or close to to feel like i'm really giving it a good effort, i can study the whole climb from the ground and work out all the beta. And i don't mind falling 10 feet on to a pad.

How ever sport is a very different story, when i'm pushing myself i don't want to be climbing so hard that i fall, but rather close to.

I am only starting to learn trad climbing and haven't lead yet, so I don't know that i can make a helpful comment about that.

BUT i think the most important part of climbing is that you are having fun. Weather that means you are top roping 5.easy in the gym, or projecting 5.15 on sketchy trad.

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

All depends on what the fall will look like. Most any fall in the gym is inconsequential. A clean fall on bolts on a flat face outdoors is no sweat. But cheese-grater'ing down a jagged slab, bouncing off a ledge, or falling on sketchy/runout gear are very low on my todo list.

If push comes to shove though, it's good to be comfortable with taking a fall. You are more likely to get hurt if you won't push off from the wall when you know you are coming off.

Micah Klesick · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 3,971

I personally make it a goal to work a route that I WILL take a whip on almost every time I go outside. That ensures I'm actively working on improving. However, improving my grades is my goal, and that means taking whippers. If you don't mind not pushing grades, then there's no reason to take whippers all the time...

Drew Hayes · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 110

I love falling - it takes your stomach and it's usually over before your mind can comprehend what the hell is happening.

It's all about managing your risk. If the falls are clean and the gear or bolts are good, then fuck it and go for it. If falling can hurt in some way, then make sure you can pull the moves or reverse the moves if you need to bail.

Edit: I wrote most of this before I went to lunch and noticed a lot of people said the same thing. Risk management!

AndrewB · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 55

I feel like I became a better climber after pushing myself on lead to the point where I occasionally take falls (or hang for a rest). Better at placing gear, better at assessing risk.

The problem with the "never fall" mentality is you could become complacent with gear placement (because hey, you never fall). Why sew up a route and triple check those important placements if your mentality is a fall will never happen.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
AndrewB wrote:I feel like I became a better climber after pushing myself on lead to the point where I occasionally take falls (or hang for a rest). Better at placing gear, better at assessing risk. The problem with the "never fall" mentality is you could become complacent with gear placement (because hey, you never fall). Why sew up a route and triple check those important placements if your mentality is a fall will never happen.
I agree with your assessment that never falling can breed complacency with regards to protection, which could be very dangerous if/when a fall does happen. But it seems that the other extreme is just as dangerous in that if you push so hard you fall constantly, there's a higher risk that eventually something in the system will fail. I'm not saying that it WILL happen, just that the chances increase.

I agree with the much stated risk assessment concept. I don't want to push so hard that I'm likely to fall. On the other hand, there are some situation where I'm much more willing to push and risk falling, and some where I know I need to climb as cautiously as possible because a fall is really not an option. But I still prefer to climb cautiously on trad, less so on sport, and simply expect to fall bouldering.
JesseT · · Portland, OR · Joined May 2011 · Points: 100

I think the whole "the leader must not fall" is from a bygone era when gear (including ropes and harnesses/swami belts) were not as reliable/safe to fall on as they are now.

Personally, I try to avoid falling too. The only thing I try to avoid harder, though, is calling "take." Unless I'm in a spot where I think a fall would cause injury, I'd rather fall than call for tension.

One of my favorite parts of climbing, honestly, is thinking I'm about to fall and that there's no way I can do the next move, then making it. For me, that's where I learn the difference between real limitations and the fake ones I build for myself in my brain. I feel like calling for tension to avoid a fall in a situation like that (assuming the fall would be safe) would rob me of that.

Edit: To answer the original question, falling is really only bad if it leads to you getting hurt. The real question here shouldn't be "is falling good or bad?" The question here should be "Is my approach to falling helping me grow as a climber?" If the answer to that is yes, then your approach to falling is good. If the answer is no, then your approach to falling might be bad.

Edit 2: Just something to think about, Dave MacLeod advocates regularly taking practice falls, assuming the fall is safe. YMMV.

justgoodenough · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 41

The leader must not fall is more important for trad routes rated 5.6-5.9. There tend to be lots of features and ledge systems to break your ankles on. Additionally, there's a good chance a beginner leader isn't placing great pro.

I highly recommend the book '9 out of 10 climbers make the same mistakes' by Dave Macleod. It wasn't until I started to take deliberate fall practice (first in the gym, then outside) that my climbing jumped a full number grade. Turned out fear prevented me from pulling bouldering moves higher up on the wall.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Consider this: Everyone that actually climbed a route successfully didn't get hurt. Some of those that climbed until they fell had their pro fail and some of them died or suffered life altering brain damage.

So, based on that fact, what do you choose to do? I would choose to climb harder and do the not falling thing. But I would rather fall on sport routes with good bolts if there's going to be grade pushing or redpoint attempting going on.

Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 3,098

I've fallen, on average, probably 10 times a day over the last 8 months.

It depends what you want. I didn't fall before I decided I wanted to climb wayyyy harder than I actually can.

I wrote a blog post today about something along the same line...

invertphil.net/guide-to-hat…

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

My biggest and most serious fall happened unexpected while climbing a easy route. The dented #9 hex that saved my ass is now framed on my wall. Sometimes we have no a choice falls happen if we like it or not.

I'm a big believer in practicing controls in the gym. Both for learning how to fall and for he belayer. Not to mention it will improve your climbing too. We just have to be more smart about falling outside

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Stich wrote:Consider this: Everyone that actually climbed a route successfully didn't get hurt. Some of those that climbed until they fell had their pro fail and some of them died or suffered life altering brain damage. So, based on that fact, what do you choose to do? I would choose to climb harder and do the not falling thing. But I would rather fall on sport routes with good bolts if there's going to be grade pushing or redpoint attempting going on.
I thought most climbers are brained damaged to begin with :-) Most climbers I know climb 1 or 2 grades easier on trad routes than on sport routes
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
JulianG wrote: I thought most climbers are brained damaged to begin with :-) Most climbers I know climb 1 or 2 grades easier on trad routes than on sport routes
I didn't think this way about a decade ago, then right here I read about a guy that died on Yellow Spur when he fell on pitch 2 and his rope cut. Someone had gear fail on Werksupp and died as well. Then another guy fell, gear pulled, and he suffered pretty serious brain damage.

Like I mentioned, I have taken dozens of falls on bolts, mostly back in Texas since once you had the three moderates wired at your local crag you had to step it up just to climb something new. I've fallen on trad gear exactly three times, two of which were on a nut at the start of Chockstone. But I have only been climbing trad really since 2003.

Anyway, pick your places to fall and the circumstances is probably the best advice.
teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

This is a settled issue.

“The leader must not fall” is from a bygone era when the hemp rope might break, it no longer applies (excepting ice climbers, I guess? I dunno, I don't do that). And naturally, a soloist must not fall, but something tells me they already knew that...

One must, of course, know when a fall is reasonably safe, but if you're not falling, you are not climbing anywhere near your limit. In modern sport climbing, it's silly not to fall (and I say that as someone who is bad at taking lead falls). Trad is a bit different, but modern gear works, so...

That said, one is under zero obligation to push their limits, so you don't have to fall if you don't want to. But it's the quickest way to get better: take the (safe) falls.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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