Cobra Anchors -- Reviews?

I think there is a lot of confusion here, the PB is not being discontinued just replaced with the PB+, the SS version is not out yet but I would venture a guess that it will be out soon, there are plenty of sites that will sell it, I've had good experiences with Climb Tech and rapbolting.com or if you prefer to get them in person you should be able to order from a Fastenal. Another option (though too cost prohibitive for some) is the new Climb Tech Legacy Bolt.

Why is rapbolting.com selling that carbon steel stuff, and aren't climbtech hangers kind of crappy? (Edit- was thinking of another company, not Climbtech) The Fixe hangers are way better IMO. The only thing I could think of to improve them is to have the inside edges rounded a bit so they don't cut into carabiners as much. I like their beefyness though and the fact that they make ones with the proper size holes for 1/2"

DrRockso wrote:I think there is a lot of confusion here, the PB is not being discontinued just replaced with the PB+

The Power-Bolt + is FAR weaker than the Power-Bolt (aka 5-piece), so the Power-Bolt is being discontinued. The 3/8" PB+ has a 1/4" bolt core, the PB has a 5/16" bolt core, if you look at the specs the new bolt is half the strength of the 5-piece (and 4 times the cost!).

The fate of the stainless Power-Bolt is unclear, but we're assuming that it will soon be gone. The ASCA just spent most of our $$ buying a huge pile of the 3/8 x 2.25" stainless PB, since there is currently no other acceptable option for hand drilled granite. We also bought a big pile of 1/2 x 2.75", which is our standard power-drill bolt for most of the country, although in many areas glue-ins are taking over as the bolt of choice.

I've used plenty of climb tech hangers, they have worked just fine for me paired with a SS 5 piece. The only disadvantage is that you have to remove the included washer from the powerbolt in order for it to sit correctly, since the hanger acts as the washer this isn't a concern. Fixe makes fine hangers as well, nothing bad to say about them other than they are a tad more expensive. If you are using wedge bolts the extra cost may be justified.

Thanks for the clarification on the SS PB Greg, I was under the impression they would still be manufacturing them.

Brian in SLC wrote: Not sure that a stainless wedge bolt/hanger wouldn't last as long as a glue in, at least in good rock in the interior of the west. Studs are pretty easy to bust or torque off flush, pound in, and patch with no grinder needed. Sure, for soft rock, glue ins seem to be the best option. I can't see most folks who are currently placing powerbolts going to a glue in system, at least not 'round here. I have a hard enough time getting people I know who bolt to consider stainless... Someone who is talented at putting in glue ins really is a cut above the rest of us bangin' in a stud or power bolt. Given how folks can be a tad cheap, I'll always wonder what glue system they used and did it really "take". Ditto their care with hole prep. With mechanical fixed hardware...well, I guess I can't tell if they overtorqued the bolt...ha ha. I get Mark's concern about the nut/stud interfering with a carabiner (or the possibility of interference). Minimizing the stud sticking out versus thread engagement takes some experience to figure out. I wonder if cutting them off flush then dulling the sharp edges might be a best practice...

I've found that the brand and design on the stud effects how much it sticks out after tightening. The Powers SS Studs and older Hiltis all would pull out a less-than-ideal distance. Right now, the Hilti KB3 design, particularly the clip, seems far superior and often only sticks out perhaps 1/8" from the nut. Far better than the old studs. KB3s are my favorite SS Stud. I keep trolling eBay for deals but haven;t seen too many recently.

KB3 with Hanger in Limestone

DrRockso wrote: Thanks for the clarification on the SS PB Greg, I was under the impression they would still be manufacturing them.

I don't know for sure one way or the other. I certainly hope that you are right, and that they continue making the stainless Power-Bolt. But we can't bet on it, and we could afford a 10-year supply at typical hand-drilling usage rates. The 1/2" we just got will only last a couple years though (assuming the bulk of the order comes in, most of the 1/2" were backordered weeks back).

DrRockso wrote:I've used plenty of climb tech hangers, they have worked just fine for me paired with a SS 5 piece. The only disadvantage is that you have to remove the included washer from the powerbolt in order for it to sit correctly, since the hanger acts as the washer this isn't a concern. Fixe makes fine hangers as well, nothing bad to say about them other than they are a tad more expensive. If you are using wedge bolts the extra cost may be justified.

In his installation video
youtube.com/watch?t=252&v=g… Kevin makes it pretty clear that a 1/2" holed hanger and the washer should be used for 1/2" bolts. Go to just before 3 min if you want to get to right where he starts to explain.

(Edit- was thinking of another company, not Climbtech. I still like the heavier, stronger Fixe ones with the dimples better, but sorry to diss Climbtech)

i think it is kind of funny they call it the PB+, perhaps PB- would have been more appropriate...

Tuesday 4/14/2015 Just got off the phone with Fasco in Las Vegas. They are saying as far as they know - called the manufacturer - no discontinuation and change in design for the Powers Rawl 5 piece bolt (part # 06913) is coming. I asked if Powers was changing the bolt diameter. They have 100 of the 3/8" x 3 plated in stock. approx. $120 for a box of 50. That's kind of my workhorse around here in Vegas sandstone.

Edited to update: A couple hours later I got a voice mail from Fasco. They had dug a little deeper and thought only part numbers were changed. Reading from the Powers site pdf I see they are thinking the Powers PB+ is equivalent, but the specs on the Powers site indicate it is not in the 3/8 size.

"Good Afternoon Erik,

The Powerbolt is being discontinued and replaced with the Powerbolt + only in the carbon steel hex head style. We will continue to offer the stainless hex head and carbon steel flat head "old" style Powerbolts and there are currently no plans to discontinue or replace them.

Thanks, you,

AJ
Powers Fasteners Customer Service"

I'm glad you were able to purchase a backup supply just in case Greg. Thanks for all the work you do!

Regarding "Do you have a specific product you recommend as a replacement for the 5-piece?"

For ICC-ES rated Wedge Anchors, most of the major vendors have ICC-ES approval. Hilti, Powers, US Anchor, Simpson, Red Head etc etc. Around here, use of stainless steel wedge anchors is a winner. I don't know what Greg Barnes comments on the Powers bolts being the only ones for hand drilled granite reflect. Hand drilling can screw up a hole size perhaps?

Are you getting spinners Greg? What's the issues?

It should be noted for those still insisting on using the carbon steel Powers Bolt that only the 3/8" version is substantially affected in the new PB+ the 1/2" version has only a negligible decrease in strength. In fact it's shear strength in 2000 PSI strength concrete has been increased.

Comparison between 1/2" Powers Bolt ultimate strength and 1/2" Powers Bolt+ ultimate strength.

DrRockso wrote:"Good Afternoon Erik, The Powerbolt is being discontinued and replaced with the Powerbolt + only in the carbon steel hex head style. We will continue to offer the stainless hex head and carbon steel flat head "old" style Powerbolts and there are currently no plans to discontinue or replace them. Thanks, you, AJ Powers Fasteners Customer Service" I'm glad you were able to purchase a backup supply just in case Greg. Thanks for all the work you do!

So I take this to mean the SS 5-pieces will still be made and sold. Maybe this will finally be the kick in the ass guys need to STOP using carbon steel 5-pieces and only use SS bolts!

I snapped a Cobra 3/8" wedge bolt years ago while torquing it. Pushed the remnant back in the hole, patched, and finished the route with a different bolt. Fortunately, there were only three others I had to replace to remove the rest from the route.

Again, that was years ago. It's possible their quality has improved since.

Micah Klesick wrote:I emailed Fixe with my thoughts on the Cobra bolts. They are not strong enough ing 3/8" diameter to be used for climbing, let alone the fact that they don't come in stainless steel. I strongly feel that Fixe should not be selling or recommending them for use as a climbing anchor.

Not everyone lives in the sogfest that is the NW, where SS is the only real long-term solution. :)

It shouldn't matter anymore. Stainless should be the choice no matter where you are. Scott Sederstrom just died in Owens River Gorge from a corroded bolt breaking. And Owens River Gorge is about as dry as climbing areas get...

Micah Klesick wrote:It shouldn't matter anymore. Stainless should be the choice no matter where you are. Scott Sederstrom just died in Owens River Gorge from a corroded bolt breaking. And Owens River Gorge is about as dry as climbing areas get...

Did the bolt break? A friend of his told me it pulled out, which is equally, if not more unsettling.

Mike Brady wrote: Did the bolt break? A friend of his told me it pulled out, which is equally, if not more unsettling.

The bolt broke. Extensive information including pictures here:

supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

Mike Brady wrote: Did the bolt break? A friend of his told me it pulled out, which is equally, if not more unsettling.

yes, it broke, however, keep in mind that it was a buttonhead and it broke right where the shaft splits. This is a prime spot for the bolt to suffer SCC, and that is most likely what happened. Regardless, it was definitely a corrosion failure.

So, I want to make sure I have this straight, since I am in the same boat as Mono (i.e. I have used Powers 5-piece Powerbolts almost exclusively and vastly prefer them to wedge-style bolts I have tried):

The final word is that the only Powers bolt that is being replaced by the Powerbolt+ is the plated steel version? Yes?

Do we have confirmation, then, that both diameters (3/8" and 1/2") of the stainless steel Powerbolt will continue to be available? Or is it only the 1/2" from now on? And as far as we know, the diameter of the inner bolt is not changing on these stainless steel models?

I have been exclusively placing stainless bolts and hangers (you're welcome), but in the relatively hard gneiss of the Clear Creek Canyon area, I have been only using 3/8" diameters (as per the local consensus and specific minimum recommendations in Darren Mabe's guidebook). I'd prefer not to switch to 1/2" bolts in this rock type (due to drill time on an old battery) unless there is no choice.

Thanks.