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Inquiry: Where to push my trad leading, or how?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
JulianG wrote: Everyone here said go climb harder don't think about skills and hope for the best.
I sure didn't say that!
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Max, I responded to your PM with an e-mail. Just wanted to make sure you got it.

WyomingSummits · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0
FrankPS wrote: I sure didn't say that!
Neither did I!
nick callahan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 0

some advice given to me when I was scared of my trad placements; put a toprope on the climb (if possible) and bounce test the living H out of your placements. especially on your projects.

Wilson On The Drums · · Woodbury, MN · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 940
Ryan Strickland wrote: I was surprised how most 5.9s and easy 5.10s aren't really any harder than 5.7/5.8, save a few moves. Sometimes 5.9/10a moves are more obvious to figure out than some weird 5.8.
this is so true. so many times a 5.7, 5.8, 5.9 and the 8+/9+ ratings seem so harder than an easy 10. like you said, sometimes the moves are more obvious to figure out, and it may only be a couple of moves rather than stacked 5.9 crux after 5.9 crux and then it gets a 5.9 rating. i've onsighted 5.11 sport but backed down (down climbed) 5.7 trad haha.
WyomingSummits · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

Ultimately, one of the most important safety factors besides having a good belayer and placing proper gear, is learning WHERE to place the gear and be able to factor in rope stretch in relationship to your distance from a ledge or other fall hazard. The only way to do that is to climb ledgy stuff in the 5.6-5.9 grade. Durrance route on Devil's Tower is a decent route for learning these skills.

Chalk in the Wind · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 3
WyomingSummits wrote:I agree with the poster who said to "lead" climbs at the grade you want to climb at on a loose top rope while towing your lead rope behind you. This way you can take a lead fall on your gear which will inspire confidence (or scare the crap out of you if it comes out). Falling on trad gear and witnessing the fact that it works will do wonders for your confidence. Also, sport leading at that level will help you develop the endurance. Practice eyeing cracks when you're on the ground and seeing if you can pick the size stopper or can that will work first try....selecting the right gear quickly helps you avoid pumping out too fast.
I think this is excellent advice. As a newer trad leader myself, I often set up a TR backup. Yesterday it was pretied knots I was clipping, and I took my first lead fall. The gear held and caught me before I fell to the knot, but it was still reassuring knowing I had that backup had my placements sucked, and doubly reassuring that the pieces held.
Chad Namolik · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 2,905

When I started trad, I learned that the mock lead (or loose toprope) is only going to give a false sense of security. You'll be thinking 'if I fall, the TR will catch me'; doesn't really do much for the sharp end. Two totally different ball games.

Aid practice (french free) will give you confidence that your gear is good. Mileage at your limit is what I think works best, repetition of placements, rests, movement, etc. Knowing where or what the crux is & where to rest is key, but that'll come with time (& mileage). Go on a climbing trip somewhere and lead 10-30 7's and 8's, if you're solid at those, try some soft 9's. This is where route specific beta can come in real handy.You wouldn't want to get on a sustained 5.9, but maybe a 5.9 with a short protectable crux, or if your good at slab or thin cracks, get on one of those. If you're struggling with a lot of those 8's, then do 30 more 7's and 8's. You're just not there yet.

I recently watched an aspiring trad leader (solid 5.6 to 5.8 climber of about a year) lead a 60 ft. 5.9 pitch in 1 hour. Not really the kind of style people are going for when onsight trad leading, ya know. Just my opinion, but if you can't lead a 60ft pitch in 20 minutes or less, let somebody stronger lead it. You should be following a bunch of 9's and 10's. That'll help too. Pay attention when following.

Bottom line, don't chase numbers. Its all about the beauty of the line, that is within your limit, of course. Embrace your sick 5.8 onsight skills and practice, practice, practice.

Or try some bouldering. A bunch of 5.10/5.11 moves, even though they are close to the ground, is only going to make you stronger, and soon, 8's and 9's will feel easier.

To the OP, how many 7's and 8's have you successfully led? Repetition and muscle memory, IMO. Good Luck!

Max H. Janszen · · Bakersfield, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 20

Chad, your advice is very true, I probably just don't have the miles yet to begin pushing very hard. It's really hard to simply get outside enough and dedicate enough time to climbing, but with more time management hopefully soon that won't be a big problem.

I could probably count the number of 5.8's I've lead on one hand, and I've led a few dozen 5.7's so you're definitely right on simply getting the miles in and putting in the footwork.

Bouldering will help me get that peak strength for crux moves, and build technique and increase the size of my bag of tricks.

Free climbing will GREATLY improve my aid climbing too, simply because I'll be able to bust some free moves on an otherwise crappy aid placement or combination of many of them.

Thanks everyone, I'm overwhelmed with the support and it's a good feeling to know the climbing community is willing to lend an ear to someone who needs some help!

WyomingSummits · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0
Max H. Janszen wrote:Chad, your advice is very true, I probably just don't have the miles yet to begin pushing very hard. It's really hard to simply get outside enough and dedicate enough time to climbing, but with more time management hopefully soon that won't be a big problem. I could probably count the number of 5.8's I've lead on one hand, and I've led a few dozen 5.7's so you're definitely right on simply getting the miles in and putting in the footwork. Bouldering will help me get that peak strength for crux moves, and build technique and increase the size of my bag of tricks. Free climbing will GREATLY improve my aid climbing too, simply because I'll be able to bust some free moves on an otherwise crappy aid placement or combination of many of them. Thanks everyone, I'm overwhelmed with the support and it's a good feeling to know the climbing community is willing to lend an ear to someone who needs some help!
You can count the number of 5.8's you've led on one hand, but you've led enough aid to have taken big falls?
Max H. Janszen · · Bakersfield, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 20

Never claimed to have taken big falls on aid, I've taken some 10-15 foot falls and falls onto my other aiders a few times while bounce testing other gear. I never knew it was expected that people be veteran climbers before dipping into aid climbing. I just reckoned since I did some caving with my friends for a few years when I lived in New Mexico, I could apply those vertical rope skills to the sunnier, less muddy side of the spectrum...

I've mainly aid-lead things that go free at a hard grade, simply because they are not in everyone's way, and I could float up as slowly as I needed to:

La Escuela, in an afternoon (really bad idea on my part, ended up in the dark)

First pitch of El Cap Tree

First pitch of Pacific Ocean Wall

Random boulders and crags that aren't crowded

And hopefully many more soon

vietgoeswest · · Portland · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 100

Max,
How is your crack technique? The single best thing I did was learning to how climb cracks better. I was in your shoes last year and dedicated myself to climb nothing but cracks in the gym for a few months then also made a trip to IC. As someone has said... there are tons of beautiful 5.7-5.8 multi pitch routes that you can cut your teeth on. Give it time and enjoy the journey bro :-)

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

Miles. Put in many many vertical miles.
When i first started climbing i was intimidated with the 'Valley'. But it turns out, the valley is a great place to put in miles. And you live only a few hours away.
Climb everything on Manure Pile Buttress, multiple times. Get to the point where you are placing fewer and fewer pieces, carrying lighter and lighter rack. Yes, it can be crowded, but start early, be patient, go for it.
A great single route to get your head on is Super Slide, over by the Ahwahnee. Starts with 5.6, slowly builds through 4 pitches progressively through 5.7, 5.8, to the last 20', very easily protected, introduce you to 5.9. And it is fun, easily rapped, etc.
Miles. Just lots and lots of vertical.

JohnnyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10

Skimming the above posts, I didn't see anything about doing laps on top-rope.

Believe it or not, many elite climbers do this to get strong, hone technique. And often on climbs that are a grade or two below their max. You can quickly build up a lot of mileage, which will improve your technique, comfort, strength, and even head-space when on lead.

I think one of the reasons it took me so long to progress from 5.8 to 5.10 was that I was always swinging leads with an equally experienced partner. We would maybe climb 4 or five pitches a day. Great adventures, but we didn't improve too fast. If we took a couple hours and did laps on TR we would have improved fast. I know because I have since employed the TR training strategy on rock after I saw some pros doing it, and also to re-learn how to ice climb.

So I suggest mixing in some days or some parts of days when you set up a top-rope on a 5.8 and do it 5 or 10 times.

And you are close to Yosemite. No better place to find partners and also run through the grades.

Max H. Janszen · · Bakersfield, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 20

Ice climbing? That seems scary at the least, ice doesn't seem to stable of a climbing medium to me!

Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71

Assuming you know how to use your gear and trust your feet 5.7-5.9 are very very similar in difficulty. The best thing to do is just climb. Also just forget about the grades. Don't throw yourself at a 510+ but also don't skip a 5.9 multi because you don't believe in yourself. The hardest part of trad climbing is gear placement. Get used to staying calm looking for a good stance, where you can take either hand off the rock, to place. Don't over grip. At the stance alternate your free hand to get used to letting go and looking for gear. Relax! Don't over focus on the crack and forget about the face. Most moderate trad routes have lots of good holds on the face. Ignoring these holds can make a 5.7 into a 5.10b real fast. Know the basic trad techniques like you know yourself. Practice finger locks, hand jams (thumbs up and down), fist jams, butterflies, dinner plates (fist on hand), double fists, and swimming low to the ground. Of course practice toe and foot jams as well. Put up a lot of TRs so you get very familiar with anchoring. Nothing will ruin your multi-pitch day like being a slug at anchors. Get practiced at setting up good strong anchors fast and reliably by top roping. Have a system.

Jeremy

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern California
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