Twisted Dogbone Problems

This weekend I had an Epiphany. My partner broke out his new Black Diamond quickdraws. Well, as the day passes, I become increasingly irritated by his draws. The long draws had this nasty habit of twisting. So clipping the rope is difficult, and even worse, it is hard to recognize if it's back clipped. While on belay, I found it impossible to tell if the rope was back clipped past the 2nd bolt.

I've always preferred the Petzl dogbones, and originally went that route because they are easier to pull up on than the small Dynex ones. Till this weekend, I had not realized how important the non-twisting fatty dogbones were. The problem seems to be worst on the 8 inchers, and not much on the 5-6 inch.

I wondered if anyone else made a similar observation, or what the community thinks of as much. The very least, I wanted to point out what I see as a major drawback to this quickdraw design.

Yep, that's why I use the Petzl express dogbones too.

I bet you get some weight weenies talking about how the Dyneema dogbones are lighter, or less bulky to rack. Those are the only arguments I have heard for the small ones, not enough to convince me.

P.S. If anyone wants to pay for shipping I have a bunch of WC short Dyneema dogbones you can have.

This has nothing to do with what brand is chosen.

Black diamond also makes thick nylon dogbones which are standard on some of their draws.

Similarly, Petzl also sells skinny dyneema slings, both as separate dogbones and as quickdraws

Stiffer, thicker draws typically orient better, clip easier, and are much easier to grab (useful when cleaning). The dyneema ones should really be considered specialty pieces. Ultralight is silly for sport climbing. Tiny draws aren't particularly useful in the alpine (as opposed to alpine/trad draws). As such, the dyneema draws should be considered specialty pieces.

Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people who are buying cheap quickdraws don't really seem to understand this, and there is a large market for cheap quickdraws with ultralight dogbones.

Try pulling on the rock more and less on your draws. See if that helps.

dyneema draws are in no way "specialty" ...

the BD positrons with their dynex dogbones may well be the second best selling draws around (after the free wires) around here ... and various dyneema ones (astro, nitro, metolius, mad rock) etc arent that far behind overall

infact i would call quite a few of these dyneema draws as a do it all compromise ...

you can use in for moderate (and even harder sport), trad, long multi where the weight does matter, alpine/ice where the bone will absorb less water, etc ....

while thick nylon dogbones do make sense for hangdogging sport ... for most folks dyneema draws work just fine

heres some sport climbing on dyneema

youtube.com/watch?v=5BPwuPX…

heres a recent article ...

In May 2013, Graham Zimmerman and Mark Allen made a first ascent of the Northeast Buttress of Mt. Laurens in the remote southwest fork of the Lacuna Glacier. Their climb—which took 59 hours up and 8 hours down—earned them a Piolet d'Or nomination. On a mission like that, every single piece of gear counts. Here's what Graham took.

Climbing Gear

On this last trip, I had the pleasure of using the newest kit by Petzl. Having used the last generation of Quark ice tools during many of my breakthrough seasons in New Zealand and the Canadian Rockies, I was super pumped to take out the newest incarnation of this tool and I'm super impressed. For crampons I used the new Lynx and they were also excellent. For a long time I used the Darts, which are undoubtedly an excellent and lightweight crampon, but over the last few years I have been doing significantly more mixed climbing than proper ice climbing, which has meant that I tend to plow through front points and having the interchangeable points makes a pair of crampons last much much longer.

The selection of any rack is extremely route dependent. Expecting hard climbing on the NE buttress, we brought a double rack of cams to a #2 Camalot with one #3, a rack of wires, a selection of pitons and four ice screws. Alongside the hardware, we brought three double length slings, seven single length slings and five ultra-light quickdraws. For the route, this rack was near perfect. We could have gotten away with a few fewer cams, certainly, but having the selection allowed for faster and more confident climbing with minimal extra weight. As a note, two of the doubles we brought were full nylon slings. This is for use during rappelling when we use them to clip to the anchor.

I think we're all very clear on the fact that in the alpine helmets are a must. On this trip, I used the new Petzl Sirocco. Honestly, I brought an extra to basecamp since I was dubious of how well it would stand up. But as it turned out, I found it far more durable than any other foam domes I've ever used, despite its very light weight. It is also very comfortable and the trim profile allows for unencumbered climbing.


outdoorresearch.com/blog/st…

as to "twisting" ive never had a real issue even with 18 cm+ draws ... just pay attention when you place the draw ... one downside though with some dyneema draws is that the top biner can rotate on the draw

c'est la vie

;)

Greg D wrote:Try pulling on the rock more and less on your draws. See if that helps.

Well, that's not very nice (nor very practical.)

Many years ago we bought into a 10 or some dyneema sling quickdraws. I quickly noticed the annoying twisting of the longer, skinnier dogbones as well as the difficulty to grab them while working a route. Needless to say they didn't last long in our packs and were replaced by Petzl spirits and BD Livewire draws. We've been very pleased with those.

shoo wrote:The dyneema ones should really be considered specialty pieces. Ultralight is silly for sport climbing.

I've never heard anyone say "I got the BD Posiwire because it was so light". I bought a set of 6 to supplement my 8 Spirit/Livewire mix because they are keylock on top, wire on bottom, and competitively priced when bought in the 6-pack ($15/each vs. $23/each for the Spirit and $24/each for the Livewire)

If I was to take a stab in the dark, I'd guess they are dyneema simply because the base of the positron carabiner is narrow and a fat nylon dogbone doesn't sit nicely.

Patrick Shyvers wrote: I'd guess they are dyneema simply because the base of the positron carabiner is narrow and a fat nylon dogbone doesn't sit nicely.

I believe this is the reason behind Petzl introduced the wide nylon version with tapered ends to allow more freedom in their biner design. Some great input here, thanks everyone.