Inquiry: Where to push my trad leading, or how?

Hello,

I'm looking to improve my trad leading skills (currently lead up to 5.7-some 5.8) and would like to be able to lead single pitches of 5.9 or 5.10 by July.

Where would be a good area to bounce around on safely, and are there techniques all you hard climbers have to improve your mental game?

Any tips and suggestions help, I live in Bakersfield and can make a 3 hour drive each way just to get outside if need be, every other weekend.

Thanks,

Max

I assume you have a partner? Sounds like you might just need to get more leading time. Not much near Bakersfield (until you go to the Needles and Kernville).

Here are two places:

mountainproject.com/v/bisho… This is my local crag and has some good, single-pitch leads. About two hours and 15 minutes from Bakersfield.

Here is another:

mountainproject.com/v/tollh… This area has some fun, moderate multipitch climbing, on the way to Shaver Lake, out of the Clovis/Fresno area.

And then at just under three hours from you is this place called Yosemite.

PM me if you'd like a half-day tour of Bishop Peak someday.

I'm mainly posting because I'm a new trad leader and want to keep up with the replies. For me it's a head game; what if I get pumped and can't find a rest, or I can't see a move, or I fall and everything zippers out because the best placements I could make were all crap? Being a few pitches up makes it all more serious and so far more intimidating to me. The fear is always there though, even on TR, it's just less. Trad leading is by far the scariest though.

So I'm interested to see what the veteran climbers have to say.

Mathias wrote:I'm mainly posting because I'm a new trad leader and want to keep up with the replies. For me it's a head game; what if I get pumped and can't find a rest, or I can't see a move, or I fall and everything zippers out because the best placements I could make were all crap? Being a few pitches up makes it all more serious and so far more intimidating to me. The fear is always there though, even on TR, it's just less. Trad leading is by far the scariest though. So I'm interested to see what the veteran climbers have to say.

I do not climb hard (at a high level), but it seems like you would develop and push your leading on single-pitch climbs. Then, when you get more confidence in your abilities, you lead multipitch. Unless you have multipitch climbs that are well within your ability.

If I can, I rehearse a potential lead on toprope, then lead it. Provided you can set up a toprope or have a more confident leader who can help you rehearse it. Have someone more experienced critique your pro. You can do mock leads where you are on a toprope, even a loose toprope, and place pro.

Then, you can take your newfound confidence and ability to onsighting. Take your time.

I evaluate the consequences of a fall before I decide to lead a route. If it's too great (e.g., getting to the first piece or bolt looks hard), I'll pass. I am a sissy leader and too old to get hurt!

I'm no veteran but for me I try to find lines I'm inspired by. Also find a style that suits you well. I personally use to only try and onsight climbs but as of lately I'm a big fan of rehearsing routes aka head point. I actually did my first clean 5.10 trad lead yesterday (my previous best was 5.8). This was after I TR'd the route, then lead it on pre placed gear, and then finally went for it and put all gear in on lead. However, I think many will tell you that the more you can just get out and get mileage the better. As long as you trust your gear placements you should be able to convince yourself to move past your fear and move past your current grade. Get after it!

I stalled out on 5.7/5.8 for a while because of similar worries that you have. Assuming you know how to place solid protection, I'd recommend you just start leading 5.9s and the occasional easy 5.10. The falls are typically safer and much of the time, there is a distinct crux, preceded and followed by easier climbing.

If it has quality gear near the crux, push yourself. I was surprised how most 5.9s and easy 5.10s aren't really any harder than 5.7/5.8, save a few moves. Sometimes 5.9/10a moves are more obvious to figure out than some weird 5.8.

In my experience (mostly Tahquitz, Suicide, and Josh), 5.8s often have heinous landings, poor pro, and/or incredibly awkward climbing. Most of the time I'd rather lead a 5.9 than a 5.8 for that reason.

To sum up, if I could go back, I would have started leading certain 5.9s and 5.10a's much sooner than I actually did. For me, crack climbs and bolted slabs were the ticket to confidence because they typically allow safe falls if necessary. When you climb easier stuff, pay attention to body position to achieve the best rests. Confidence is the most important thing for success at that level!

I don't have a partner, except for random friends I've dragged up climbs, and would like one that can lead or swap leads with me once I've done a run through on new routes.

I've done multi-pitch (up to 6 pitches a few times on manure pile in yosemite) and I just want to get ready for a big summer trip in Yosemite, including the south face of Washington column (I enjoy aid climbing a lot until my mental game deteriorates from fear).

I'm free every other week, and I gym climb on Tuesdays and Thursdays for two hours, and I work out two other days of the week in the mornings, though I could do everyday theoretically.

I don't have problems running out gear for even a hundred feet, when the climbing is solid and well within my ability, just when it gets dicey and I can't be certain I have the climb bagged do I get wigged out.

FrankPS wrote: I do not climb hard (at a high level), but it seems like you would develop and push your leading on single-pitch climbs. Then, when you get more confidence in your abilities, you lead multipitch. Unless you have multipitch climbs that are well within your ability. If I can, I rehearse a potential lead on toprope, then lead it. Provided you can set up a toprope or have a more confident leader who can help you rehearse it. Have someone more experienced critique your pro. You can do mock leads where you are on a toprope, even a loose toprope, and place pro. Then, you can take your newfound confidence and ability to onsighting. Take your time. I evaluate the consequences of a fall before I decide to lead a route. If it's too great (e.g., getting to the first piece or bolt looks hard), I'll pass. I am a sissy leader and too old to get hurt!

Thanks Frank. Most everything I'm climbing right now is new to me, whether leading or following, but soon I will have a number of 5.9s that I have followed and cleaned, that I can try leading. So if I got it clean following, it's on my list to lead next time. I ask everyone who cleans my routes to critique my pro. Usually the feedback is good, but occasionally there will be something that is less than desirable or just outright terrible, and so I find out what and why. I have back off a route or two before because the protection wasn't to my liking. Learning to identify that before hand is a skill I'm working on.

Well, if anyone wants to climb every two or so weekends, I'm down. I have a massive SUV (Ford Expedition), an entire technical climbing store in a huge duffel bag, and then some, and I enjoy pretty much everything but ants (I hate ants in any quantity, except the tiny little picnic ants). So yeah, shoot me a message when you're looking for a partner on anything I can follow or swap leads on.

Did I mention I hate ants?

Max.... Find a steady partner....

You live close to awesome climbing.... Kern Slab, New Directions,Bald Eagle Pk, Book Rock, Dome Rock and the Needles are all in your backyard.

+ 1 to Ryan's comment.

I got out this weekend an did my first 5.9 lead. Was easier than the sustained 5.8's I did before/after.

If you place gear well and can protect the particular climb well, just go for it and push yourself.

That being said, having a belayer you trust is important. It's hard to push yourself when your belayer is someone who doesn't lead themselves / doesn't understand the challenge you're undertaking by pushing yourself.

5.7 to 5.10 in on 2.5 months is a big jump in grades even is it is just a mental issue. Next will be 5.10 to 5.13?

Just go to J-tree it is a great place to learn to lead, not to mention there are 5142 climbs. After you do all the all 5.8's, move on to on 5.9. Unless you are in a rush :-)

"Just go to J-tree it is a great place to learn to lead,"

I disagree 100% with this statement..... You had better be good with your gear skills at JT....the granny, large crystal, irregular cracks can be decieving.

On that short stuff that is JT you have zero room for a placement failure, none at all. And if you take as much as a fifteen foot slider on a slab, you risk a broken ankle, and 4th degree road rash.

Much better to learn on really smooth granite and go do really easy climbs, like 5.5 easy and work up from there.......

Taquitz is one of the best places to go and do this... start out on the trough and work up.... stay away from the loose junk left of "The Who Done It" ....

I agree with the poster who said to "lead" climbs at the grade you want to climb at on a loose top rope while towing your lead rope behind you. This way you can take a lead fall on your gear which will inspire confidence (or scare the crap out of you if it comes out). Falling on trad gear and witnessing the fact that it works will do wonders for your confidence. Also, sport leading at that level will help you develop the endurance. Practice eyeing cracks when you're on the ground and seeing if you can pick the size stopper or can that will work first try....selecting the right gear quickly helps you avoid pumping out too fast.

Max H. Janszen wrote:I don't have a partner, except for random friends I've dragged up climbs, and would like one that can lead or swap leads with me once I've done a run through on new routes. I've done multi-pitch (up to 6 pitches a few times on manure pile in yosemite) and I just want to get ready for a big summer trip in Yosemite, including the south face of Washington column (I enjoy aid climbing a lot until my mental game deteriorates from fear). I'm free every other week, and I gym climb on Tuesdays and Thursdays for two hours, and I work out two other days of the week in the mornings, though I could do everyday theoretically. I don't have problems running out gear for even a hundred feet, when the climbing is solid and well within my ability, just when it gets dicey and I can't be certain I have the climb bagged do I get wigged out.

Have you fallen on gear you've placed? Do you trust your anchors you build?

I've aid climbed and wailed on plenty of my pieces and eaten quite a few of them, I typically place really bomber cams, rarely do I get one that even appears dubious. Lead climbing free is a different animal for me, most likely because A: I've never taken a significant lead fall on my gear, and B: on the routes I've been climbing, a fall would almost ALWAYS have meant some heinous road rash/bruises/broken bones.

Stopper placements are a hit and miss for me, I generally reach for cams before stoppers, and I make sure I have a clean fall and good gear below a stopper before proceeding.

The loose toprope on mock-but-kinda-real lead would be really fun actually, if someone could put up with me for a Sunday morning of that I would be grateful!

Max H. Janszen wrote:I've aid climbed and wailed on plenty of my pieces and eaten quite a few of them, I typically place really bomber cams, rarely do I get one that even appears dubious. Lead climbing is a different animal for me, most likely because a fall would almost ALWAYS have meant some heinous road rash/bruises/broken bones. Stopper placements are a hit and miss for me, I generally reach for cams before stoppers, and I make sure I have a clean fall and good gear below a stopper before proceeding. The loose toprope on mock-but-kinda-real lead would be really fun actually, if someone could put up with me for a Sunday morning of that I would be grateful!

I'm the opposite....I'll look for stopper/tricam/hex placements first. I much prefer falling on a good stopper than good cam....to each their own! :)

Odd....you don't mind falling while aid climbing, but on lead you're wigged?

Wyoming Summits ..... I am with you, stoppers and hexes are bomber...

I guess the fall potential for a steep aid climb is not nearly as bad as a run out craggy free lead for me, it's weird.

I don't recycle gear a lot when I aid climb, I just have so much stuff I just tag more up from the belay to keep sewing long cracks up, if the placements are really obvious and bomber I will hop cams once or twice before leaving another behind, etc.

I probably dislike stoppers because I manage to donate them to the next parties that ascend each climb that I've weighted stoppers on.

I'm notorious for losing those things in cracks (like six so far, all in Yosemite.)

Guy Keesee wrote:"Just go to J-tree it is a great place to learn to lead," I disagree 100% with this statement..... You had better be good with your gear skills at JT....the granny, large crystal, irregular cracks can be decieving. On that short stuff that is JT you have zero room for a placement failure, none at all. And if you take as much as a fifteen foot slider on a slab, you risk a broken ankle, and 4th degree road rash. Much better to learn on really smooth granite and go do really easy climbs, like 5.5 easy and work up from there....... Taquitz is one of the best places to go and do this... start out on the trough and work up.... stay away from the loose junk left of "The Who Done It" ....

Exactly my point take it easy and get some outdoor mileage. Place gear, build confidence on the grades he already climbs. Everyone here said go climb harder don't think about skills and hope for the best.

Climbs Toe Jam 5.7 or Sail Away 5.8 great and take a lot of gear. Not to mention that he already climbs at this grade