Broken Cam thread
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Aric Datesman wrote: Anyway, sorry for the tangent from the X4 thing....You mean all the weed he was growing. Keep this thing on topic dammit. |
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nicelegs wrote: Ray, I don't have numbers to dispute you but I reckon that BD sells 100 clothing units to every cam. Maybe more. Aric, forgot to add, at the time wholesale for an Alien was $28.BDE introduced its clothing line in the fall of 2013. |
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nicelegs wrote: Ray, I don't have numbers to dispute you but I reckon that BD sells 100 clothing units to every cam. Maybe more. Aric, forgot to add, at the time wholesale for an Alien was $28.$28??? Rock&Snow told me they sold me the cams I tested at cost! Which they may well have done... My memory isn't the best and I'm likely remembering the wholesale wrong. That said, $28 wholesale makes their balance sheet look even worse given it doesn't effect COGS.... |
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nicelegs wrote: You mean all the weed he was growing. Keep this thing on topic dammit.Well, yeah. I wonder if Fixe bought that too? |
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Aric Datesman wrote: $28??? Rock&Snow told me they sold me the cams I tested at cost! Which they may well have done... My memory isn't the best and I'm likely remembering the wholesale wrong. That said, $28 wholesale makes their balance sheet look even worse given it doesn't effect COGS....That's the number that was always spouted. It was also the number that I had to reach when I clocked in on the cam card to work straight for cams rather than my hourly pay (that and the overtime rollover instead of overtime was probably illegal, funny how 20 year old's don't care). |
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Ray Pinpillage wrote: BDE introduced its clothing line in the fall of 2013.Are you sure? I know I have gloves from about 2008 that are BD. For climbing I bet the harness/belay device/locker is their primary sales. QD's and biners after that. Cams and nuts after that. Where do backpacks factor in? |
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Malcolm talked to Dave about buying him out several times, but - if I recall correctly - on running the due diligence he came to believe it didn't pencil out due to the labor costs associated with the complexity of the design. |
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I was told something similar, Joe, with the addition that chunks of the financials provided for review were often missing. |
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nicelegs wrote: Are you sure? I know I have gloves from about 2008 that are BD. For climbing I bet the harness/belay device/locker is their primary sales. QD's and biners after that. Cams and nuts after that. Where do backpacks factor in?Apparel does not include gloves or backpacks. BD has been making gloves since almost the beginning. I have a pair of "Ice" gloves I bought from them when I lived next door in the 90's. 100K units of X4's is less than 5M in revenue. sltrib.com/sltrib/money/568… |
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Back on topic, Nicelegs, I think you have a point in qualifying the reported failure. Too much of this discussion is anecdotal and guessing. |
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Beside all the bullshit and meth'ed out geezer stuff, my point was only ever that I have 15 year old aliens that have seen plenty of misuse and abuse and they are fine. I have seen season old X4's and Mastercams that are wrecked. |
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If BD is using a Six Sigma quality standard that would produce 3.4 / 1mil defects and hopefully those wouldn't ship. If there's an issue it's a design issue, not a manufacturing one. And if that's the case, and just like the MaxCam and Link Cam, then it's up to you as an informed leader to exploit their advantages and mitigate their disadvantages if you decide to use them. |
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does anyone have a single sales figure of how many cams a major manufacturer sells in a recent year in north america (or europe)??? |
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bearbreeder wrote:does anyone have a single sales figure of how many cams a major manufacturer sells in a recent year in north america (or europe)??? not some half assed guess ... but a real actual figure thats published???No one is going to publish those numbers. My guess: a) Pick a number as to how many people put on a harness last year b) Take 5% of that as the percentage who bought cams c) Figure 60-65% of those bought BD One report claims 6mil people participated in some form of climbing in 2009. Call it 75% had a harness on and you're at 4.5mil. Run the above and you get 4.5mil X 0.05 = 225k bought cams 225k X 0.60 = 135k bought BD cams 135k x 8 cams each = 1.08mil BD cams 1.08mil cams X $15.00 profit / cam = $16.2mil in BD cam profits YMMV... |
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Healyje wrote: No one is going to publish those numbers. My guess: a) Pick a number as to how many people put on a harness last year b) Take 5% of that as the percentage who bought cams c) Figure 60-65% of those bought BD One report claims 6mil people participated in some form of climbing in 2009. Call it 75% had a harness on and you're at 4.5mil. Run the above and you get 4.5mil X 0.05 = 225k bought cams 225k X 0.60 = 135k bought BD cams 135k x 8 cams each = 1.08mil BD cams 1.08mil cams X $15.00 profit / cam = $16.2mil in BD cam profits YMMV...that sounds like a lot of speculative picking and choosing !!! even the politicians around here spend more effort making up numbers for their campaign promises ... not that theyre anymore "correct" anyways ... time to feed my beahs a vegan diet ... ;) |
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bearbreeder wrote: that sounds like a lot of speculative picking and choosing !!! even the politicians around here spend more effort making up numbers for their campaign promises ... not that theyre anymore "correct" anyways ... time to feed my beahs a vegan diet ... ;)Again, the numbers you want aren't publicly available so speculating is about all you've got going... |
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Dylan B. wrote:Speculation is worse than nothing because it provides the illusion that you can draw conclusions.Well, in my line of work I sometimes build sophisticated scenario analyses for clients who pay me well for them. Several 'bet the farm' to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars every year based on short but intense periods of running various scenarios. None considered it "worse than nothing" or I'd be getting way more climbing in. Again, speculation is all you've got sometimes. |
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Healyje wrote: Again, the numbers you want aren't publicly available so speculating is about all you've got going...Actually, all sorts of numbers are publicly available if you know where to look. Case in point, I'm rather surprised to see that BD only makes 20-25% of their products; the rest are 3rd party manufactured. Also interesting is this tidbit: "We compete with niche, privately-owned companies as well as a number of brands owned by large multinational companies, such as those set forth below. Climb: Our climbing products and accessories, such as belay devices, carabiners, and harnesses, compete with products from companies such as ArcTeryx, Petzl, and Mammut." Notice how they only list companies mainly involved in soft good manufacture? Cams must be a really small portion of their business. http://www.blackdiamond-inc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=118683&p=irol-reportsannual |
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Aric Datesman wrote: Actually, all sorts of numbers are publicly available if you know where to look.But no cam numbers. They made $77mil in 2013 profits so my speculation of $16.2mil of that coming from cams is probably high. I'd bump it down by a third or half. |
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Aric Datesman wrote: Notice how they only list companies mainly involved in soft good manufacture? Cams must be a really small portion of their business. blackdiamond-inc.com/phoeni…They mentioned companies with broad product lines and production capabilities that actually compete with BD. |