Bowline

rgold wrote: True, and I wouldn't have had to solo a pitch years ago after a rope I never tied to fell off. But you wouldn't have had to check whether the knot was tied correctly, just whether or not it was tied at all, which is a different and much simpler check and doesn't require any understanding of what the knot should or should not look like, and that was the issue that drew my comment in the first place. That comment stands; I don't personally need anyone to check whether I have correctly tied my knot, but I don't mean this to be relevant or apply to anyone else. --------------------------------------------------- csproul is correct, a bowline on a bight and the rethreaded bowline are the same knot, just tied differently, one using an end so that it can be threaded through the harness tie-in points and the other tied on a bight which cannot contain any closed link. But there is some confusion, because you can also just tie a bowline with a bight of rope, and this is not what is usually meant by a bowline on a bight. The reason the knots in the diagrams linked by csproul are not the same is that the rethreaded one is a double bowline and the bowline on a bight is a single bowline. You could tie either one single or double. (Here "single" and "double" refers to whether you have one or two turns of rope before you thread the end through to start making the knot.)

Correction for clarity then: the two knots that are shown in the two links that csproul posted are NOT the same. Check again.

20 kN wrote: Ha, yea, I wouldent hold your breath. It depends on who that someone is. Every time I climb with a new partner at the gym I tie a bowline, and hold it in plain view and ask "is my figure eight good?" About 50% say yes....

Point taken, but I don't climb in the gym. And I would not at all be surprised if many gym climbers couldn't tell the difference between a bowline and a figure eight follow knot.

Nearly all of my climbing is multi-pitch so I am much more selective in who I climb with and my partners know the difference. I generally teach them how to tie the better figure eight follow knot anyway and make sure they tell me what they are checking when they check my knot.

csproul wrote:Sorry, I just tied both knots in my living room. I tied a Bowline on a bight, and I tied a single bowline and re-traced it. It looks exactly the same to me. They both look like this: The knot on the left was tied in the middle of the cord. It is a bowline on a bight (as tied on the Grog's link). The knot on the right is a single bowline that has been re-traced. They look exactly the same to me. Am I missing something?

Check your links again. The knots in the links you posted are not the same.

rgold wrote:Sadly 20kN, this is a known weakness in the checking procedure---it turns out to be difficult for the checker to notice something unexpected. See, for example, wildfiretoday.com/2010/03/0… Another reason why you ought to feel 100% certain you know how to tie your own knot.

Sad accident :( Though I can see how a 3rd party checker would miss that. Whether two loops intersect or just touch, I find takes a clear focus especially as from the wrong angle they can look identical.

This is why most of my friends emphasize well-dressed knots. A correct well-dressed figure-eight follow-through has an iconic look that is impossible to mistake and pretty hard to fake.

While we're on the subject of all the different flavors of bowline, here's one that doesn't seem to have a name:

rope-work-101.wikidot.com/i…

Some call it bowline with a bight, some call it inline bowline. I even found a website on marlinspike rigging that call it the painter's bowline

climbing friend,

Do not be using of this knot. You would be going to do the dying.

Use the knot that makes you happy.

I use the 8 for multipitch because it doesn't shake loose even if I'm doing lots of head down ass out trad nature hiking and not weighting it.

I use a bowline variant when doing single pitch unless it's an OW, because it is easier to untie.

I don't care what knot others use as long as it holds. 200 pages of arguments from graying boyscouts here won't change anyone's attitude.

rockklimber wrote: Check your links again. The knots in the links you posted are not the same.

The links may not be correct and RGold has kindly explained why they are different. But, despite what you said up-thread, the re-woven bowline and the bowline on a bight (shown in my photos), which is what were being discussed, ARE identical.

csproul wrote: The links may not be correct and RGold has kindly explained why they are different. But, despite what you said up-thread, the re-woven bowline and the bowline on a bight (shown in my photos), which is what were being discussed, ARE identical.

Agreed. Just informing you that the knots in the links are not the same which is what you initially insinuated.