Totem Cam for P1 of Serenity Crack?

Heading to the valley for the first time this month for a short trip. My main goal is to climb Serenity-Sons. However, I've been a bit intimidated by the pin-scar start. I was talking to a buddy who thought that the totem cams, which can be loaded on two lobes (aid-only according to the manufacturer, but I've also heard of folks whipping on two lobes with confidence, if anything it would be good psychological pro) would actually fit in a couple spots before the bomber 0.75 about 30 ft up.

All that being said, what's ya'll's opinion on the matter? And if the Totems would work, what size would be best?

When I climbed this last spring, my partner and I screwed around with a #1 Camalot about 15-20 ft up. In the end it makes more sense to push through till you get that bomber piece 30ft up, place 2 pieces there and keep on going. Watched a few people cruise up it and they did the same thing.

Haven't done Serenity and Sons, but as with climbing pretty much anything with pin scars, offset cams (and small offset nuts) are king.

The issue with protecting pin scars is largely one of head width in an irregular crack/pod. The head width of most cams is simply too big relative to width of the pin scar at the point at which it is most "regular," and as such likely to be poor placements. The totem idea isn't a bad thought, but you'll likely be better off with offsets.

Offset cams skirt past the irregular width issue nicely, since you can slot the big lobes into the widest part of the scar, with the small lobes at a narrower part below it. The cam acts mainly as a cam at this point, but also a bit like a slotted offset nut. Works like a dream. Small offset nuts often work nicely as well.

As for which kind of offsets to get, that's mostly going to be personal preference. Honestly, any of the major three brands (aliens, x4s, master cams) are going to be great. I have a slight personal preference for master cams due largely to durability.

shoo wrote:As for which kind of offsets to get, that's mostly going to be personal preference. Honestly, any of the major three brands (aliens, x4s, master cams) are going to be great. I have a slight personal preference for master cams due largely to durability.

I have offset master cams, I was more interested in the Totem cams because they can be loaded on two lobes

Put your head down and go for it. It's very low angle. And if you cam your toes in the scars until it's painful, you will not fall out, and the 30' of unprotected climbing will pass before you know it. Stopping to place a piece in a flaring scar that will look like crap before the bomber .75 placement will only increase your anxiety.

Or, if you want to surrender all dignity, another strategy is to start a little later, and ask a party that's rappelling to let you use their rope as a top rope to "stick clip" the first piece.

Better to just bust out the initial runout. You'll feel much better afterwards!

I used tri-cams - sometimes sideways - to protect that first 30' when I did it in the early 80's, but the very first time in '78 I used Chouinard stoppers wedged behind hexes. Yeah, pretty funky, not super trustworthy, and I really didn't breathe easily until reaching the bolt.

The poster above talking about off-sets may not be aware of the configuration of the "crack" - it's not a crack but a RURP seam interspersed with 2" - 3.5" holes, meaning there's no flared constriction at the bottom of the pin holes, where off-sets would shine.

I'm not familiar with the route, but I do have a set of Totems and they perform very well in flares. Not sure I would trust a 2-lobe placement unless it was in some weird pocket or constriction that would help it resist levering.

For those unfamiliar with the route, this is the protection difficulty we're talking about:

ruin yo tronsite

vimeo.com/24245302

Orange alien, old style.

Bomber.

Judging from the photos, I'd whip on a Totem in one of those pods, even if it were placed perpendicular. The stemless design really shines on that kind of weirdness. I'd go perpendicular before I'd go 2-lobed.

i led the first pitch with a double set of totems, youll be fine with them, they are the best cams ever made. ive turned alot of C3 into C1 with those guys

To be honest, the climbing is actually rather easy on those 1st 30 feet but I'm a big wimp with regards to ground falls so I plugged gear in.

I found you can get a decent off-set alien and a nut before you get to the .75 placement at 30 feet. The placements are a little devious but they're there.

Sheets wrote:To be honest, the climbing is actually rather easy on those 1st 30 feet but I'm a big wimp with regards to ground falls so I plugged gear in. I found you can get a decent off-set alien and a nut before you get to the .75 placement at 30 feet. The placements are a little devious but they're there.

IIRC, that pitch was originally rated 5.9, but the first 30' was considered 5.7 bitd.

I think 5.7 is about right (aside from that 1st move off the ground). The climbing is insecure but if you stand up over your feet it is really chill.

Sheets wrote:...(aside from that 1st move off the ground).

Yeah. There are some things I try to blot out of my mind. That's one of them! There are some stupid things like that in the Gunks, too - a 5.8-or-less that starts with a V2.

The first smeary move off the ground can easily be avoided by stemming off the boulder to the left of the crack.

Captain Hook at Suicide

I know you can get a mid-size tricam (blue?) in one of lower pin scars. Make sure you put a long sling on it, so it doesn't walk out. Seems like a Totem cam could work...

I was gripped the first time I did this route (have repeated it many times since), and fought hard for decent pro. I didn't get any. I've never looked for pro before the .75 again, and I've never been gripped again now knowing the nature of the climbing. But on your flash go, it feels heady for most.

The two spots where I left cams on the first go were completely jingus, and I made the climbing harder to boot. If you plug a cam into any of the "better" slots, it's just going to fuck up your feet placements. And climbing that first 30 ft safely is 100% contingent on getting good foot placements (your hands are mostly for balance, with a handful of good pinches thrown in).

It seems like bravado and sandbaggery but it really is true: you make it easiest by just going for it. Fuck the gear, use technique as your pro until that first bomber placement.

Someone above wrote:
Or, if you want to surrender all dignity, another strategy is to start a little later, and ask a party that's rappelling to let you use their rope as a top rope to "stick clip" the first piece.

That's not a strategy, that's something that goes by another name.

Sheets wrote:I think 5.7 is about right (aside from that 1st move off the ground). The climbing is insecure but if you stand up over your feet it is really chill.

Meeeh, that section is 5.9, but only for the first 5-8 feet where you only need a good spotter. The remaining 20 feet to the first good gear is indeed easier.

Sirius wrote:I was gripped the first time I did this route (have repeated it many times since), and fought hard for decent pro. I didn't get any. I've never looked for pro before the .75 again, and I've never been gripped again now knowing the nature of the climbing. But on your flash go, it feels heady for most. The two spots where I left cams on the first go were completely jingus, and I made the climbing harder to boot. If you plug a cam into any of the "better" slots, it's just going to fuck up your feet placements. And climbing that first 30 ft safely is 100% contingent on getting good foot placements (your hands are mostly for balance, with a handful of good pinches thrown in). It seems like bravado and sandbaggery but it really is true: you make it easiest by just going for it. Fuck the gear, use technique as your pro until that first bomber placement. .

Yup, that about sums up what I have taken away from doing it over the course of the years. That said, IIRC, a partner of mine got a pretty decent offset alien about midway up that seemed "okay" one of the times I was up there. But as Sirius says, your only "real" gear is not falling. Someone above stated that they would "whip" on a Totem in one of those scars, which is a really foolish statement. Its possible it might hold, but virtually all of those holes are so flaring that expecting any cam to hold in one is awfully hopeful.