Rescue in Eldo last night

Xam wrote: I still cannot figure out where you were. I get that you were on the east slabs but how do you avoid the chockstone or friction slab and get to windtower trail? Did you never get into the gully/trail between Hawk-Eagle Ridge and the East Slabs? Did you rap over the Bulge? Just curious...

Honestly couldn't tell you. All I know is that from the gully where SAR met us, it was one single strand 60m rap off a tree down to where we were able to hike across broken rocks for a bit, then we did another very short rappel to get on what seemed more like the official wind tower trail. The two longer raps were the only times we were navigating steep rock (most of the rest of the time we were on dirt, until the bottom of the second rap), so maybe we crossed the slabs then, but those sections seemed a bit steep for 4th class if I recall correctly.

What I dont understand is why all of you internet hardmen are outraged that some volunteers helped out a lost climber.... Why is this a problem for you? How does this affect you?

Embarrassed Gumby wrote: All I know is that from the gully where SAR met us, it was one single strand 60m rap off a tree down to where we were able to hike across broken rocks for a bit, then we did another very short rappel to get on what seemed more like the official wind tower trail. The two longer raps were the only times we were navigating steep rock (most of the rest of the time we were on dirt, until the bottom of the second rap), so maybe we crossed the slabs then, but those sections seemed a bit steep for 4th class if I recall correctly.

The short rap was down over the wall to the climbers left of the chockstone downclimb, I wager.
The long low angle rap, I figure, mush have been off of the slabs VERY HIGH towards the Hawk Eagle Trail.

I'm guessing you went too far east retreating from where you were, went down above North Rock and then were somewhere East of Anthill Direct or something...

I'm far from an Internet hard man, however, while I don't support the ridicule these guys are getting, I can completely understand why people are upset.
According to the OP, these guys spent 3.5 hours on pitch 1. It's hard to understand what they didn't turn back.
Any rescue puts a rescue team in jeopardy.
This whole thing makes the rest of the clan look bad.
I don't doubt these guys learned something, but this whole thread could have been avoided by a little common sense.

What's the saying?

Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

People make mistakes all the time - rappel off the ends of their ropes, take lead falls and get hurt...the list goes on. I haven't had to call SAR, but I've made mistakes. For some of them, I was lucky I didn't get hurt. They'll learn.

mediocre wrote: Any rescue puts a rescue team in jeopardy.

Seriously? It was like a 1/4 mile hike and one rappel? In jeopardy... come on?

And so what? That's what RMR volunteers for, that is what they want to do. Why do you care? Clearly you are not interested in helping these folks, that's fine. Why get upset when others do?

Georgehh wrote:What I dont understand is why all of you internet hardmen are outraged that some volunteers helped out a lost climber.... Why is this a problem for you? How does this affect you?

+1
This happens all the time. That is why there's a full time rescue team in Chamonix (one example). And as stated before, it is better to do this rescue (which it is) than for someone to be arrogant and have it accidentally end in body recovery.

It's good to hear these guys post up and share their end of the story and understand that they learned from it.

You don't have to turn off a phone to save the battery. Just placing it into airplane mode and closing all of the apps down should extend the battery life. Keep the phone in your pocket over night so it doesn't get cold.

On an Android phone turning off data can also strech battery life.

Embarrassed Gumby wrote: Honestly couldn't tell you. All I know is that from the gully where SAR met us, it was one single strand 60m rap off a tree down to where we were able to hike across broken rocks for a bit, then we did another very short rappel to get on what seemed more like the official wind tower trail. The two longer raps were the only times we were navigating steep rock (most of the rest of the time we were on dirt, until the bottom of the second rap), so maybe we crossed the slabs then, but those sections seemed a bit steep for 4th class if I recall correctly.

FWIW #1: A few years ago, in optimal daytime conditions, an experienced climber in the company of a legendary guide tried to downclimb through the Hawk-Eagle chockstone. The climber fell, and even with a helmet on sustained a pretty decent concussion.

FWIW #2: If I understand correctly, two local legends were benighted on, and extracted from, the Yellow Spur. They were teens at the time, their rescue party included Layton Kor.

FWIW #3: The big jefe of Boulder emergency services will tell anybody that will listen to go ahead and scramble rescue/medical/... before the situation gets critical (if possible).

FWIW #4: I've been able to provide some menial support to a number of rescues here in Eldorado. I can assure you I've never thought that a rescue was a waste of anybody's time, but perhaps that's just me.

There's no way to know if you made the "right" decision; just know that your decision places you in good company and has precedent. And you can always make that donation to RMRG to assuage your conscience.

youtube.com/watch?v=qIuUL91…

sometimes these kind of things are even captured on video ...

regardless of whether a call for "rescue services" was appropriate

you need to be able to survive the night and not depend upon rescue during the night .... as theres always a good chance might not be able to reach you before daylight ...

Georgehh wrote: Seriously? It was like a 1/4 mile hike and one rappel? In jeopardy... come on? And so what? That's what RMR volunteers for, that is what they want to do. Why do you care? Clearly you are not interested in helping these folks, that's fine. Why get upset when others do?

I'm not saying this was a dramatic rescue, but stupid shit does happen.
And I'm sorry, but this is NOT what rescue volunteers, volunteer for. I would be very surprised if anyone, on any rescue organization anywhere, says to themselves, "I hope I get to go out and set up a rappel in the dark to help people who ignored common sense today.That's what I train for."
I've spent unplanned nights out before. It sucks, but when you're healthy and the only thing damaged is your ego, hunker down and wait for light.

mediocre wrote: I'm not saying this was a dramatic rescue, but stupid shit does happen. And I'm sorry, but this is NOT what rescue volunteers, volunteer for. I would be very surprised if anyone, on any rescue organization anywhere, says to themselves, "I hope I get to go out and set up a rappel in the dark to help people who ignored common sense today.That's what I train for."

Is that speculation or fact? Because if I had the time, I'd love to volunteer and that's exactly what I would want to be doing.
shrug*

I'd be curious to hear an opinion from a rescuer though this is probably not the place.

bearbreeder wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIuUL91QN3s sometimes these kind of things are even captured on video ...

Compare and contrast. The guys in Eldo at least tried to get out on their own and were way more prepared than the group on Fandango - In fact check out the girls belaying - 2 wraps around a biner instead of a muenter????

B-dog wrote: Is that speculation or fact? Because if I had the time, I'd love to volunteer and that's exactly what I would want to be doing. shrug* I'd be curious to hear an opinion from a rescuer though this is probably not the place.

That's personal experience. If I'm out looking for someone who got hurt/lost because nothing they did wrong or could have prevented, great. That's what rescue is about.
If I'm out because someone couldn't follow a trail/road/signs or wore jeans in a snowstorm trying to climb a cascade volcano in a January snowstorm because of incompetence, no thanks. I did it long enough where I'll be the first to admit that I got jaded. However, rescue volunteers are people, so I'm sure there are different opinions out there.
These guys spent 3.5 hours on the first pitch of a multipitch climb, knowing the descent could be tricky. (At least I hope they had an idea of the descent starting that route at the crack of noon:30.)
Glad everyone's ok, but this rescue was a waste of resources.

bearbreeder wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIuUL91QN3s sometimes these kind of things are even captured on video ... regardless of whether a call for "rescue services" was appropriate you need to be able to survive the night and not depend upon rescue during the night .... as theres always a good chance might not be able to reach you before daylight ...

When I saw the clouds at 33 seconds I knew common sense wasn't something they actually had available.

The weather looked convective and I am sure the forecast said the same thing. Stupid.

This observation is not meant to offend or insult. I am finding this thread interesting and I just want all of us to see the various opinions.
So here it goes:
Does it seem that there is a movement away from RMR/SAR rescuing people who are injured and, instead, rescuing people who are not smart?
Thoughts?

no, and you can't fix stupid.

I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised about the variety of opinions expressed in this thread regarding when to call for rescue. I always thought it was pretty much understood that calling SAR is an absolute last resort unless you are dealing with potential or actual serious injury. I hope that if I were in their situation -- i.e. not stranded on a cliff and with enough clothing to survive the night (which was cold but not sub-freezing) -- I would have used my phone not to call SAR but to let my wife know they I was going to spend the night with someone else, cuddle up together with him on our rope, and find our way down in the morning.

mediocre wrote:According to the OP, these guys spent 3.5 hours on pitch 1. It's hard to understand what they didn't turn back.

Not quite. At 4pm we both had climbed the West Chimney (an approach pitch) and P1 of Swanson's Arete, so we had both climbed 2 pitches, built an anchor, sucked down some bars and water, let a free soloist pass through, and were starting P2 of Swanson's Arete at 4pm. We still should've bailed at this point, but we didn't spend 3.5 hours on just one pitch.

Mike McHugh wrote: FWIW #1: A few years ago, in optimal daytime conditions, an experienced climber in the company of a legendary guide tried to downclimb through the Hawk-Eagle chockstone. The climber fell, and even with a helmet on sustained a pretty decent concussion. FWIW #2: If I understand correctly, two local legends were benighted on, and extracted from, the Yellow Spur. They were teens at the time, their rescue party included Layton Kor. FWIW #3: The big jefe of Boulder emergency services will tell anybody that will listen to go ahead and scramble rescue/medical/... before the situation gets critical (if possible). FWIW #4: I've been able to provide some menial support to a number of rescues here in Eldorado. I can assure you I've never thought that a rescue was a waste of anybody's time, but perhaps that's just me. There's no way to know if you made the "right" decision; just know that your decision places you in good company and has precedent. And you can always make that donation to RMRG to assuage your conscience.

Historical comment:

The two legends were Pat Ament and Larry Dalke, who were 16-years old at the time. The rescuers were Layton Kor and Jack Turner. It was in January 1962.

As I recall, the accident of one of the two climbers near the Cinch Crack Boulder occurred in wet weather. I don’t have direct knowledge of the event, but after news of the accident occurred, I received a couple of emails asking me if I had been hurt. Friends heard the description of two old climbers having an accident near the Cinch Crack and my partners and I matched the demographic profile of the injured. This was certainly on my mind when I set up the rappel above the Boulder.

Rob.calm