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Tips for cleaning a route

Original Post
Brady3 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15

I was climbing up by Prestige Worldwide Wall yesterday and found a route that would be fun if it weren't for one problem block. The block is maybe 12-15ft off the ground and just barely staying there. It looks like a good hold, but I did decide to bump it before pulling on it and it shifted from that. As this is up in Clear Creek Canyon, when it comes off it's probably going through a car (about the size of a large toaster?).
My thought was to rap down from the top and build a bomber anchor above. Then put a few wraps of webbing around it and lower it off using a pulley system with static line.
Or should I just wait a year or two and hope it doesn't kill someone when mother nature brings it down?

This is on one of the faces you pass under going from Prestige to Real Hidden Valley. The area seems like it has potential, but nothing is established. Maybe that's just because of cleaning problems? I found a chalk mark a little below the block so I'm not the first to try the route.

Also I found a stopper above there.

Brady3 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15

I don't have a PAS. But I have plenty of slings and more webbing than I would ever need in CO. (Bought all the webbing for building top-rope anchors when I was living in MO) Why would owning a PAS make a difference?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Brady, I think the PAS comment was just a wisecrack.

Do you know any of the locals that climb frequently in that area? You could run it by them, but a dangerous loose block should be cleaned. Is it an established route, or just a potential line you were checking out?

Brady3 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15

Just a potential line. And it is an area that is not frequented, so there is a good chance that few if anyone else will try the route. But I would like to climb it without fear of inadvertently killing my belayer or someone that happens to be driving past. As far as I'm aware, I go there more frequently than anyone else.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

To clean routes of loose rock, anchor from above and either rap down and clean keeping all rope below the area in a coil or bag at your side. Or, if anchors already exist, have your partner lower you and they themselves go way to the side out of reach of the rockfall. You may need a crowbar to get large blocks loose. Definitely wear gloves and a helmet.

My friend Jodie cleaned a loose flake with a small tree behind it at the Piggy Bank at Shelf Road some months ago. I just stood far to the side while she tossed the two foot long rock and the little tree behind it came down with it. I replanted the tree over in an area where there were fewer trees and now water it when I go by. It's doing quite well.

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025
Brady3 wrote:Just a potential line. And it is an area that is not frequented, so there is a good chance that few if anyone else will try the route. But I would like to climb it without fear of inadvertently killing my belayer or someone that happens to be driving past. As far as I'm aware, I go there more frequently than anyone else.
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Have you cleaned this flake yet?
First Track Jack · · Evergreen, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 140

Nathanael,

I removed my post. My directive was if you are asking some of these questions, maybe you should get some more climbing experience before launching boulders on route 6. PWW is up the hill, a very small area with short climbs and not sure I would launch anything from up there. Not even worth hiking up there with some many better options lie Nightworm Pinnacle at the base.

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025

Well Jack there's always the first time. Breaking your trundling cherry ;-).

Brady, Stich has the process right. I'd follow his guidelines. To Add: The impact mess is always going to be much bigger than you imagine. You mentioned a 15 ft. drop....If the landing zone is rock then the bounce effect makes for wider and further down the hill dispersion.

I trundled a 6ft.x 3ft. limestone block the other day from about 25 ft. It hit on soft level ground and the dispersal radius was about 25 ft.

I don't know the area but if there's road below you might want to have some buddies temporarily stop traffic and be prepared to cleanup the road.

Brady3 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15

I have not gotten a chance to get back up there. So no I have not cleaned it yet.

I have cleaned routes in other areas where there wasn't a road at the bottom, so I do know to rappel from the top and keep the rope out of the way (or you can also have a buddy lower you so there is no rope below you). The space below the block is at a slight angle, though soft ground, but the angle does get steep quickly after that. That's why in my initial post I mentioned that I was thinking of securing the block and lowering it so that it does not go into the road. Because simply shoving it off would obviously be a bad idea. Fortunately this block is no where near 6ftX3ft so that does make this easier. I probably can lift the block, but it's still big enough that I don't trust myself to not drop it while getting lowered to the ground. Having friends stop traffic is a bad idea because, 1) we are not a part of a construction crew and do not have permission from the authorities do that 2) as the rock is rolling down the hill it could go just about anywhere so we would have to keep a large area clear and 3) I don't want to have to pay to fix the road.

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025

Well Brady, this sounds tricky. I have raised and lowered a lot of objects in my construction career. Never lowered a rock flake though. Landscapers do it all the time. Maybe you should be asking these folk.

Sure, you could try to sling it with webbing (which in itself is a dangerous operation) but finding the center of mass might be just a guess and you might trundle it anyway. Then there is some risk to your ground crew

You confident this route is worth the risk?

First Track Jack · · Evergreen, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 140

It seems like the Vegas and Cali guys are commented and maybe are not familiar with the area. These small crags are perched high above highway 6 and another climb called Nightworm Pinnacle. It is also a half hour from my house and would hate to see an incident on highway 6.

I have cleaned routes of loose rock for client safety but only when i could see entirely below.
The highway patrol would have a fit if your friends tried to block the road.

Just suggest finding another climb and let the big blocks be until mother nature sends them down.

Tronald Dump · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

drill it, put in a bolt and lower it that way?

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025
First Track Jack wrote:It seems like the Vegas and Cali guys are commented and maybe are not familiar with the area. These small crags are perched high above highway 6 and another climb called Nightworm Pinnacle. It is also a half hour from my house and would hate to see an incident on highway 6. I have cleaned routes of loose rock for client safety but only when i could see entirely below. The highway patrol would have a fit if your friends tried to block the road. Just suggest finding another climb and let the big blocks be until mother nature sends them down.
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Jack, I have not climbed at Clear Creek only Eldo and the Flatirons. I did look at the area on MP. I believe Highway 6 does get commuter traffic loads at times.

There's crags over by Kernville, CA on the way to Dome Rock which are similarly situated and I know when stuff comes down there it pretty much makes a mess out of the road...sometimes even taking a chunk out of the pavement. But now that it's a thread on MP those Colorado Highway Patrol guys will know just where to ask questions.
John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392

Brady, how big is this block? Thomas Beck is right: Blocks rarely go where you want them to and they cut ropes and webbing like butter. Lowering it seems sketchy.

If it's really large, contact CDOT and see if they'll take care of it for you, or at least help. They "scale" the canyon frequently.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60

Bolt it and lower it. It doesn't need to be super awesome quality that will last decades. Go to home depot and buy a couple 3/8" expansion bolts for a couple of bucks. Drill a hole in the block and put 2 bolts in for redundancy(if its that big). Make a TR with a dynamic or static line for the rock, and one for you. Grab the rock and have your belayer slowly lower you until the rock is on the second rope with all the stretch out. Lower down with the rock to control it all the way down.

I've seen massive industrial strength webbing "baskets" attached to excavators in the canyons after the floods. Looks like it was for moving car sized rocks.

Brady3 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15

This block isn't super massive, maybe 200lbs? And it is relatively round rather than what I normally think of as a "flake." It is currently setting on smaller rocks so it does have gaps under that I would hope I would be able to get webbing through (I wasn't the first to climb this and whoever climbed it before it looks like they pulled on it but not enough to drop it). For how it's sitting I would think that trying to drill into it is more likely to knock it off than trying to sling it.

It is possible that it isn't worth it, and I've gotten busy enough recently that I'm not sure when I'll make it back up there anyways. I've also been able to climb with a few more people more frequently, and that isn't an area that I would take them. So it may also not be a problem by the time I get up there, I know they have been scaling a little East of there so they might move farther up the canyon before I go to clean it.

brianszero · · Rogers, Ky · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 21

Keep it simple. Don't try to drill it, sling it ect.. A lot of things can go wrong adding all those elements. Just rapp the route w/ two ropes or isolate both lines of the same rope with tie offs at anchor, keep excess line with you and not below you. Make sure below is clear of cars and people. Make sure you have all your weight on the lines w/backup and just push off with your feet. Stay above it. If you don't understand what I am saying have someone else do it.

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392
brianszero wrote:... and just push off with your feet.
I had very loose blocks be quite recalcitrant. Take a hammer and crowbar so you don't waste your time.
Tronald Dump · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

TNT that piece, looney toons style!~

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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