Garden of the Gods Problems

People can do a lot of stupid s__t at and away from the crags. I read a different thread on MP about someone peeing on a guy and his GF on a route. My first thought was that if that happened to me, I'd catch them after the climb and pummel them. I'd never actually do that but I understand how people get provoked to violence. Problem is, kicking someones ass doesn't make them smarter or more considerate. It can get you in a lot of trouble or hurt. One of my friends got into an argument over a backcountry campsite and the other guy threatened him with a large hunting knife. Can't call 911 from out there....

Wow, bummer story Shep... One someone hits or tackles you it becomes a different arena. I don't know how I would have reacted. Glad you took the higher road, and I hope this POS gets what is coming to him.

There are way too many people w/o courtesy and ethics at the crags these days, and overcrowded areas are bound to have some tempers fly...

Most people rap the E. Face for a variety of good reasons. I imagine more accidents happening downclimbing the S. Ridge because most climbers don't use the rope on that terrain because they don't know how and it's not just a straightforward scramble, especially if you don't know the best line.

Certainly not waiting after calling rope or not getting the ok from the people below is a mistake but a minor one. If you climb enough years you're probably going to forget at some point or someone won't hear you. Apologies/beers are in order if you fail to do it properly. Lowering and saddle bagging the ropes is a good way to go which it sounds like they did but not to the best effect. You do your best but shit happens. Just work on getting better. I generally operate under the assumption that most people are not trying to be assholes and cut them some slack given that assumption. If people are acting like a dick or being a real idiot I'll usually try to politely call them out.

There are extremely limited situations where physical violence is the best course of action. I don't consider this one of them. People who do either like to fight or like to sound tough. As soon as that first punch gets thrown though all social niceties disappear. "Take no shit, and take no prisoners."

So I can't defend that guy for his BS behavior, and I don't want to, but as I read and re-read this thread, I can't help but wonder why you didn't take the walk off to the South? You said you saw parties working the line and then you rapped in on them anyway -and you had a well-known option available not to. Further, if you had your heart set on rapping, why not ask them if it's cool to rap their line when you top out, before you even started? Hindsight is 20/20, and I get that, but there are two obvious ways I like to think I would've avoided getting confronted by that thug.

And while I certainly wouldn't have slapped a fool over it, I think if you pulled that behavior with me I would definitely come get an explanation from you.

Again, to be clear, the guy is/was a motherfucker and you should give we Springs climbers his description. It's a small community.

Glad nobody really got hurt.

Standing under parties rapping seems to be common at Garden of the Gods. I was there a few weekends ago climbing one of the sandiest, dirtiest, chossiest route I have ever done (even though it's supposedly a classic.) Anyway, on the way down my partner knocked some choss off by accident and there was a party below us sitting on the slab with no helmet. After the rock missed them, they decided to continue sitting under us directly in the line of fire without putting their helmets on even though their helmets were only a few feet away....

20 kN wrote:Standing under parties rapping seems to be common at Garden of the Gods. I was there a few weekends ago climbing one of the sandiest, dirtiest, chossiest route I have ever done (even though it's supposedly a classic.) Anyway, on the way down my partner knocked some choss off by accident and there was a party below us sitting on the slab with no helmet. After the rock missed them, they decided to continue sitting under us directly in the line of fire without putting their helmets on even though their helmets were only a few feet away....

And nobody kicked your butt? Weenies.....

Ya I obviously didn't do everything 100% correctly. That's why I posted this, in order to get feedback from the community so that I can learn from all of it? And also because it's a pretty outrageous story. Thanks to everyone for all of the comments, concerns, and insight!

The climbers on this thread need to give up the name. This is wholly unacceptable. You're a climber- you know damn well that there are objective risks with this sport. Blaming someone else, and furthermore assaulting them for your own mistakes is absolutely not something we should tolerate as a climbing community.

Everyone knows this area is famous for loose rock. Hell, I haven't even climber there and I could have told you that. For this person to assault someone for loose rocks falling in not only an area where this type of risk is well know but while climbing while NEXT TO A RAPPEL ROUTE is mind boggling.

If any of the people on this thread do know who he is and are protecting him, you are just as guilty of abhorrent behavior as he is, you should be ashamed of yourselves and ostracized by the community at large.

Everything bad that happens in the Garden of the Choss can easily be rooted to the Green Bastard

The Green Bastard.

Cornelius Jefferson wrote: Greg D is on the short list

That's really cute and amusing. Thanks for the compliment. Truth be told, I always use the utmost diplomacy and tact as the first resort in high tension situations. Well, maybe a little sarcasm too. It is kind of funny that an old guy opened a basic can of asswhoop on this kid and he ran to the Internet to get some backup and support from some bleeding heart libs.

It's pathetic how many cheerleaders this kid had before the other side of the story was known. Kinda like how the media can convict someone before knowing all the facts. Y'all should be ashamed of your selves.

Personally, I'd be embarrassed to come to the internet for support after some old man whooped my ass unless his last name was Li or Noris. But that's just me.

We'd all be singing a different tune if Shep suffered a subdural bleed and went into a coma from the assault by Joe.... I'm an "Old dude" and I totally disapprove of his assault on Shep. Shameful for a person with so many life experiences to believe an assault was an appropriate response to the situation.

Both parties are at fault here. Shep needed to be more careful in the rappel and provide more warning for the people below. As another poster mentioned, he should have said "sorry, I'll be more careful. I can't guarantee nothing will come down - perhaps you should put your helmets on." Joe's response to the situation should have been a stern but respectful talk with Shep. And Shep should have called the police and reported the assault. It has been my experience that people who assault are repeat offenders because they rarely suffer the consequences of their actions.

This is an example of what I call the "Jerry Springer-ization" of our society. People who try to resolve issues through verbal and physical assault are glorified in media such as Jerry Springer and YouTube. We've lost the blessing of having respectful disputes - respectfully describing how a person caused us harm (or potential harm) - and the other person admitting their mistake and saying "I'm sorry."

And doesn't it seem silly to bring a helmet and not wear it when you know there are people above you in an area known to have chossy rock? I volunteered on a Search & Rescue team and there was a fatality where a man was killed in an avalanche because he didn't wear his beacon and other safety gear which he had in his truck - the only one in his party who didn't - and because of Murphy's law he was the one caught in the avalanche.

For the locals in Colorado Springs: I've spent the past three weekends climbing at Red Rocks Canyon. The other climbers we met there were courteous and friendly. They quickly moved their topropes or moved on to the next climb to make room for us. Consequently, I have a good impression of the locals who I have met there.

Arlo, the previous poster Paul Simmons is obviously a troll, probably Elanor. So the approval of the assault is meant only to irritate.

Now honestly, would anyone cry if Elanor was physically assaulted by meerkats? Doubtful.

And really, the main problem in the Garden is that the rock is choss.

You troll(s) need a good slapping around.

Arlo F Niederer wrote:This is an example of what I call the "Jerry Springer-ization" of our society.

Jerry Springer? What, is this 1995? Maybe you should pull out some Tonya Harding and O.J. references!

Greg D wrote: That's really cute and amusing. Thanks for the compliment. Truth be told, I always use the utmost diplomacy and tact as the first resort in high tension situations. Well, maybe a little sarcasm too. It is kind of funny that an old guy opened a basic can of asswhoop on this kid and he ran to the Internet to get some backup and support from some bleeding heart libs. It's pathetic how many cheerleaders this kid had before the other side of the story was known. Kinda like how the media can convict someone before knowing all the facts. Y'all should be ashamed of your selves. Personally, I'd be embarrassed to come to the internet for support after some old man whooped my ass unless his last name was Li or Noris. But that's just me.

Punks!

Pnelson wrote: Jerry Springer? What, is this 1995? Maybe you should pull out some Tonya Harding and O.J. references!

Can't we all just get along?

Sorry for the trollishness above...

Seriously, sounds like there is more to this story than we know & something provoked "Joe". That said, it seems a little idiotic for grown (way grown) men to be fighting like kids on the playground over something like this.

I would encourage friends of "Joe" to post, anonymously if he choses, his side of the story. It will help us all get to the bottom of it.

Sam Vongh wrote:I would encourage friends of "Joe" to post, anonymously if he choses, his side of the story. It will help us all get to the bottom of it.

I would be interested to hear "Joe"'s side of the story. Unless he is a maniac that goes around attacking people over every slight, there is probably a whole other side to this story

Sam Vongh wrote:^^^Agree. Has anybody heard about duels? History lesson indeed! If "Joe" beat the kid into a coma it would be uncool, but what he did was slap him around. That is similar to a parent slapping a kid that misbehaved. Kind of like what kids need nowadays from their parents...

Hmmm....perhaps the old guys parents slapped him around and this is how he learned to resolve problems?

Kids need less slapping and yelling and physical aggression. When you hit a kid you teach them it's OK to hit other people.