Crag Babies

Marc801 wrote:Frankly, some parents just suck at it and aren't as responsible as they should be. I still recall the time in the Gunks when an arriving parent placed their baby in a baby carrier at the base of the cliff, directly under me while I was leading. I didn't appreciate it.

Definitely. I tried to make that point in my initial response. Let me be more blunt. Some parents suck. I didn't take my kids climbing when they were really young because, while the likelihood they would get hurt isn't that great, if they did get hurt, odds are they'd really get hurt. Part of that decision was based upon hearing about an accident at Church Bowl in the Valley, where a small baby in a carrier was hit in the head by some random rock fall (really unlikely at a well traveled area like Church Bowl, but there you go) and had some very serious, long term injuries. No thanks. It was a sacrifice. I'm just starting to get out again after ten years of really infrequent outings with old partners, but the decision for me was a good one. I could bore you with endless stories about the parenting skills of some of my kids' friends, but I'll spare you.

As far as a use issue, I still don't see babies as anymore obnoxious then the loud talkers, the sprayers, the temper tantrums from those blowing their redpoints, etc.

Colin R wrote:One additional comment... If forced to choose I feel it is better to take your kids bouldering if you are able to keep an eye on them and away from other climbers. The fact that some parents don't do that shouldn't unfairly reflect on those that are able to manage their kids (and I have seen some good examples too). The crag I feel should be off limits for kids under 7 imo. There's just too many unknowns for them.

You are ridiculous, you are the problem. It's not your kid, your land, your air we're talking about. Until people stop trying to control the others around them, who don't fit their expectations of what they think should be going on around them, these topics will keep popping up.

My mom stuffing me in an OW at age 6 was life changing.

Kids!

Take the kids out early and take 'em out often.

Colin this thread isn't about babies, and its not about endangering a child's welfare, that's your straw. This thread is a bitch and moan fest about 'my unhappy time at the crag'. And I as well am not trying to control your thinking. I'm merely refuting the spew of bullshit here. Stop judging other parents' decisions, stop judging other's decisions. I'm guilty of it too, but let's all get over it together.

Colin, I was responding to what you originally wrote, so sorry to sound targeting... I should have never posted to this thread since I really have no investment in it.

I thought this was about babies at the crag? What do 5 and 6 year old kids have to do with babies? Kids are cool and if they aren't you can tell them to cut the shit. Everyone looks at you funny when you yell at a baby acting up though.

Colin R wrote: You've taken a poll? Maybe the fact that I've accidentally kicked a kids head when falling off a boulder problem whom I wasn't expecting to be there might wake you up? Look I am all for kids deciding their own risk level but treating them like little adults who can just do whatever they want is... a) Dumb. b) Definitely on the rise (hence the post). c) Ironically not fair to the kids themselves. Kids are dependent on adults not the other way around. I never used to see any kids at the crag or boulders. Now I am terrified of them running underneath me pretty much everywhere or having to talk to the parents who most certainly will take any comments personally. I seek out low use crags and avoid obvious crags like Rumney or the Red for this very reason. It's important for parents to understand that their child is not the center of the universe nor are they. Nor is your child "special" in any way (other than to you of course). I say that fully feeling that my son is "special" to ME but I don't go around demanding others make way for my "special" son. None of this can be determined until they are much, much older imo but our society is obsessed with children and comparing them and pushing them beyond what is normal.

Nobody does their own research these days. Keep up with the times.

I thought it was a pretty well understood fact that parents (on average) are more hyper protective of their little ones compared to a couple of generations ago.

theatlantic.com/features/ar…

The article is long and thus a bit of a time investment. I have kids and it changed my thinking on exposing my little ones to risk.

You went to Animal World in Boulder Canyon and are now complaining about something? What did you expect beside a shit show at that crag? Do you also complain about kids at the climbing gym?

You went to Animal World on a Saturday so you should be nothing but ashamed of yourself. The fact that you advertised your bad choices on the internet makes it even worse. Cut your losses and apologize to the climbing world for the silly choice of posting about it.

Yeah I do such a bad job of being explicit. Like if you fly up a little on the last page you can see my stupid garbled comment of a made up anecdote. And reading into that maybe one will come across what I really feel. I don't have kids, but I do have a dog. I don't play music at the crag, but I might throw a TR on a line and sit on it. We all have things that we do that annoy others, and things that annoy us, and that's what the real problem is. Just as I get fired up when someone tries to sweep through and crucify all dogs as the devil because one pissed em off at their local crag; I see admonishing those who bring their children/toddlers/infants in the same light. It's not one's business to judge.

Tom Sherman wrote:This thread is a bitch and moan fest about 'my unhappy time at the crag'.

+1

If you don't want the potential to be bothered by babies at the crag, walk to a crag that is just 'slightly' more remote, where you will find none. Parents just don't bring their babies/toddlers any further than they have to. Simple.

Truth

oh no, I've always thought memes were to geeky to bring myself to post, @#$% it

It's really holding me back

Colin how much longer is the ice going to be holding on in Ottawa area? Always wanted to try to chase the seasons end up north a little. PM me if you want.

Colin R wrote: LOLZ! Nice one!

+1 !!!

And I thought this thread was an opportunity to compare other peoples annoying urchins to loud music, dogs, and beta spray.

I prefer dogs.

steveherschleb wrote: FULL DISCLOSURE: I don't have kids and my wife and I don't plan to.

If only your parents were that smart we would not have to deal with you at the crag.

This thread has gotten out of control.

5 pages in one day - is this some kind of record? Paging the Site Statistician...

At the risk of adding some helpful advice...

If you have a group of three, using walkie talkies opens up a lot of options, as the baby tender can be farther away from the climbers and still call for back-up if things get out of hand.

Animal World seems like a poor choice for baby tending, since the available staging area is small, near a drop off and right below popular climbs (e.g. Jaycene's) Even the Mine Hole crag is probably better.

The Sport Park is great if you leave the kids at the beach down near the stream crossing. The aqueduct path isn't a bad spot for them either.

Mountain Rose Crag also has plenty of room along the aqueduct path, but the cliff itself is friable, so keep them clear of climbers. I think you can follow the path down from the Sport Park and avoid the climb up from Castle Rock. Frisky Cliff is even closer, but not too many crag babies there.

The Riviera is a possibility. I think you could find a safe spot on the far left or right end of the cliff. Can't swear to it though.

Pretty sure you could find a good spot near The Stepping Stones crag.

Finally Dream Canyon, especially near (but not under, please!) the Oceanic Wall has a nice stream to play in and some great routes. The hike back out is a little tiring with all the baby gear.

FWIW, I think there are more options in Clear Creek.

pretty sweet that craggin puts dogs and infant humans in the same level of annoyance. .

this is Colorado! They are one in the same (actually I quite often see people treating their dogs better than their children).

Babies at the local crag? pffft... How babies at your local bar?