Links for Bailing Sport Climbs

Hey,

I'm newish to sport climbing and was wondering what the common practice is when bailing off the middle of a climb:

a) Is there a trick to doing it without losing gear?
b) If not, what is the best gear to use? I've seen quick links used, but they are heavy. Does anyone know of one around (or less than) 2 oz for <$3? Are the hardware store ones just as good as long as they're rated to a high enough weight?
c) If there a good reason that whatever I use for this should be locking (i.e. not just a cheap non-locking carabiner)? Of course locking is always safer, but its also more expensive for something that only gets used once, especially considering we lower off (non-locking) draws all the time.

Thanks!

Brian Wiesner wrote: Is there a trick to doing it without losing gear?

Stick clip your way up to the chains.

Climb an adjacent route, or walk to the top if it's an option, and rappel the route you left your gear on.

Otherwise buy/find/booty a couple cheap biners to bail from. Please don't leave quicklinks mid-route.

Do not use links. They are a PITA for the next person to get out. In some places they will also rust and be even harder to undo. Sacrifice a biner. If you're nervous about using a non-locker, tape the gate shut or use a locker. Consider it the price of failure. If you climb long enough you will pick lots of extra binders that other people left.

Or stick clip your way to the top.

I'd just bail off a single non-locking biner. That said better make damn sure the bolt is solid first because bolts do fail. Fatality last week from someone who trusted a single bolt: supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

This is the only thing I like about cold shuts: you can re-thread through the shut and lower, then pull the rope.

But they are falling out of favor, for good reason.

As mentioned previously, don't use quick links: they are too much of a nuisance to get off the climb for the next climber, and they aren't *that* much cheaper any way.

You would be surprised what you can accomplish with a stick clip: if you drop a loop down to your belayer, after going in direct to a bolt, bring the stick clip up to you, and from that point on you should be able to "lead" the route on top rope. So unless you *really* got in over your head, you can finish any route with a stick clip. There is a major hit to your ego and pride, however, if you do this with a stick clip. ;-p I've never done it, obviously, I've only heard about people who have done it. ;-)

Throw a couple old bail biners in your pack, just in case, though, and use one of those if you get in over your head.

teece303 wrote:This is the only thing I like about cold shuts: you can re-thread through the shut and lower, then pull the rope. But they are falling out of favor, for good reason...

He's talking about bailing off of the middle of a route. Why are you bringing up cold shuts? I've never seen shuts in the middle of a route. Have you?

Yup, I've seen them all over the Front Range, csproul, and not just as anchors. Becoming less common. But great for bailing off of!

Texas rope trick if you are only 1/3 of the rope length from the ground. Otherwise bail biner with some tape on the gate.

If you have to bail on one bolt or piece of pro, attach a prussik to the rope going up through the quickdraws/gear, and clip it to your harness... That way if that top bolt or piece blows, you fall down on to the last piece as if you were on lead. You can slide the prussik down as you clean the rest of the gear.

teece303 wrote:Yup, I've seen them all over the Front Range, csproul, and not just as anchors. Becoming less common. But great for bailing off of!

Interesting. Don't remember ever coming across one in the middle of the route.

Eric Chabot wrote:If you have to bail on one bolt or piece of pro, attach a prussik to the rope going up through the quickdraws/gear, and clip it to your harness... That way if that top bolt or piece blows, you fall down on to the last piece as if you were on lead. You can slide the prussik down as you clean the rest of the gear.

A few years ago this was fully illustrated in one of the petzl catalogs. I can't find it right now, maybe someone else knows where it is.

I had to lower off with a carabiner today thanks to a failed sport climb. $6 seems like a good price for failure.

I don't have a stick clip and have never used one, so that's not really an option, although it sounds like a neat, albeit exhausting trick.

Of course, the intent was assuming that I'm on a route from which I can't get to the top or otherwise get to the gear by another route.

It sounds like the way to go is to use a cheap non-locking biner, but one part of my question I was anxious to hear about was not mentioned: Why would I tape the gate shut or use a locking biner if no one ever does that with the draws in the first place? Why is the biner on the draw any safer to lower from or fall onto than a single biner on a hanger?

Brian Wiesner wrote:I don't have a stick clip and have never used one, so that's not really an option

I've never owned a stick clip either, but I've found plenty of sticks. If you're climbing with any ladies or bros with long flowing locks, hold the gate open with their hair ties. Otherwise some climbing tape or a small twig works too.

Brian Wiesner wrote:Why would I tape the gate shut or use a locking biner if no one ever does that with the draws in the first place? Why is the biner on the draw any safer to lower from or fall onto than a single biner on a hanger?

If you look at a quickdraw, you'll note that the dogbone is very loose where it attaches to the bolt-side of the biner. This limits the movement it can induce on the bolt-side biner. If the rope is directly through a biner on the bolt, there may be some concern that a swing or bounce could rotate the biner in a way that would work or bounce it loose.

Seems unlikely to me though if you're not lead-falling on it.

But then again, yer gonna die.

Personally I would use a locking biner if you have one. Think of the minor cost as incentive not to bail... and if you really HAVE to bail, then a few bucks is a small price to pay to get down safely. After you've been climbing for a while, the bail biners you collect will probably start to outnumber the ones you leave behind. Circle of life.

Ya, I've already collected a couple locking biners, but everything I've been taught says to never use gear you find out in the field, and I would think that would ring especially true in this situation when it is the only thing holding me up.

Also, some things posted seem somewhat contradictory - A taped biner would be MUCH more difficult for the next climber to remove when compared to a quick link, and yet the main argument against using a quick link is that it is too hard for the following climber to remove.

I'll see if I can find a cheap locking biner or wait for them to go on sale.

That advice is more important with something like slings that may have been sitting out in the sun for an unknown length of time. Hard goods are pretty easy to check. No visible cracks or rust, smooth gate action, no sharp spots that may damage your rope or slings... probably good to go.

Of course if you want to err on the side of caution, buying a new biner is the safer bet, but I'm confused because you seem more motivated by saving a few bucks than by safety when you suggest taping a non-locker. I can almost guarantee that any locking carabiner you find that looks to be in good shape is definitely safer than a piece of tape... even a brand new piece of tape.

Really the best bet as a new climber is to err on the side of caution until you have more experience under your belt to make those judgment calls. If a used piece of gear with unknown history makes you uncomfortable, by all means don't use it, buy a new one instead. In the long run we're really talking about very minor differences in cost and getting home in one piece at the end of every day outweighs that by far. How many biners can you buy with the cost of even one trip to urgent care for even a minor injury?

csproul wrote: He's talking about bailing off of the middle of a route. Why are you bringing up cold shuts? I've never seen shuts in the middle of a route. Have you?

Yes. Lots of routes have them. No I don't have citations to prove it.

the problem with quicklinks is that a lot of folks use the hardware store ones

over time these tend to rust and get stuck, not to mention that if the climber is forced to clip it, they arent rated for climbing ... how would folks like to take a big lead whipper on a thin rusty hardware store quicklink, i sure wouldnt

you can buy cheap lockers these days for less than 10 dollars these days ... not to mention youll probably find booty as you climb more

the other problem is that quicklinks can jiggle open, which is why we use loctite and/or a wrench when putting them for fixed rap stations ... the next person who comes up might be clipping a quicklink that has jiggled open a bit ... and quicklinks generally are not rated when open unlike carabiners

regardless its not a bad idea to use the petzl method to protect yourself, especially if yr using a snapgate

;)

Whether the biner is locking or not adds little margin to your safety. Do you really think your rope is going to magically jump out of a non locker while you are lowering? Lower off a non locker and keep your rope clipped to a second bolt below with another biner. Lowering off a single piece is your real danger.