Back Clipping Alpine Draws

I understand that back clipping a dog-bone quickdraw happens due to the rigidity in the dogbone keeping the carabiner oriented such that the climber's end of the rope extends up and behind the carabiner, leading to the possibility of the rope rotating out of the gate during a fall. However, alpine draws made from runners (nylon/dyneema/whatever) do not have a rigid stem, so my question is whether or not you can actually back clip these draws? Are they safe no matter how you clip them? Assume the draws are in the fully extended position AND/OR shortened. Thanks!

They can be backclipped. Sometimes because the alpine draw is non-rigid unlike a sport draw and the direction of the route/rope, it can be harder to discern the best orientation for the carabiner when clipping the rope. Also, the carabiner can be rotated in a way that the runner or rope is running over the gate. Basically pay attention to the way you are clipping.

Yes, you can backclip them; and no, it probably won't make a big difference compared to backclipping a shorter, more rigid draw.

When using alpine draws, I'm more concerned about the biner rotating into a crossloaded position, or a position where the rope runs directly over the gate.

See this for an account of an absolute worst-case scenario involving properly used alpine draws.

I think the proper way to think about it is:

They are *unsafe* no matter which way you clip them.

;-p

I'm joking. Mostly.

Hyland Markle. wrote:I understand that back clipping a dog-bone quickdraw happens due to the rigidity in the dogbone keeping the carabiner oriented such that the climber's end of the rope extends up and behind the carabiner, leading to the possibility of the rope rotating out of the gate during a fall. However, alpine draws made from runners (nylon/dyneema/whatever) do not have a rigid stem, so my question is whether or not you can actually back clip these draws? Are they safe no matter how you clip them? Assume the draws are in the fully extended position AND/OR shortened. Thanks!

While you CAN (sort of) back clip, for (almost) all intents and purposes, back clipping is a non-issue with alpine draws. This is particularly true for alpine draws with skinny spectra/dyneema slings, for exactly the reasons you outlined above. Slightly more of an issue with nylon and/or stiffer/thicker slings, but again very small. It's also worth noting that the twist in the slings for an alpine/trad draw typically puts the two carabiners slightly out of alignment with each other (unlike in a sport dogbone), so the idea of backclipping isn't even all that relevant.

However, it's not necessarily "safe no matter how you clip them." You should be concerned with interaction with the rock and other hardware. You want to make sure that your direction of travel is not going to cause either gate (rope or gear end) to be pried open, just the same as in a sport draw. The rope is unlikely to unclip itself due to backclipping, but you can still get either either end to unclip in a variety of scenarios.

I keep a couple small lockers to place on the rope side for placements I really worry about since a couple people have died or taken really bad falls when the rope unclipped on the wrong alpine draw. Just something to keep as an option.