Gunks AAC campground update?

Matt Davis wrote:Sadly, the Mohonk Preserve these days is about monopolizing and monetizing access to the ridge. Personally I think the towns of Rochester, Marbletown, New Paltz, and Gardiner, should take the whole thing by eminent domain, and give it to the state. Make it a southern extension of Catskill State Park where climbing is free, not because the cost to access the preserve is unaffordable, but because monetizing access to such a degree has changed the spirit of the place. Mohonk seems to be about the egos of the executive staff and the board of directors. It seems to be about control; who can do what, where, and when. And above all it seems to be about money.

Seth, you should take your gripe up with Matt privately then instead of bringing toxicity to this thread.

BigA wrote:Whoa! Who told you to "shut up"? That seems rude! If you're so tired of the same old, why are you one of the main contributors to thread derailments?

Me? You need to scroll up. Little review of the chain of events is in order.

Hmm. You're just so right. I scrolled up and realized my error. All due apologies.

Btw, just gave your band a listen. Great stuff man!

BigA wrote:Btw, just gave your band a listen. Great stuff man!

I thought you were anti-thread derailment? ;-)

Only when the derailment is in the form of pro-preserve vs anti-preserve bullsh*t

BigA wrote:Only when the derailment is in the form of pro-preserve vs anti-preserve bullsh*t

You should lay out all those subtle rules of conduct at the beginning of each thread so MP doesn't cross the lines of your good taste. We obviously need the guidance.

SethG wrote: I don't discuss the Gunks here much because it has been made impossible by one person who ruins every thread. I have no hope of getting through to him, since he appears to believe (in classic troll fashion) that he speaks for a vast silent majority and attacks anyone who disagrees with him as biased. I care a great deal about climbing and the Gunks but I view talking about it here on the mountain project forum to be nearly pointless.

I'm with you on this Seth---note my only contribution to this thread was the comment on the Van Leuven cabin.

Rob D. wrote: I know it's been said on this website many times, but have they actually announced closing slime?

At the risk of un-derailing this thread, I just called the preserve visitor center for info. According to the operator:
- Camp Slime will be closing once the AAC is open, but will be sometimes used for group reservations (he mentioned Boyscouts). Not sure if this will be its ongoing status, or just for already planned groups.
- Camping will not be allowed at the AAC when it is officially closed (some time in November through May 14th),
- He indicated the NYS DEC campground (MUA) would not be closed as far as he knows.

The last point surprised me and I don't have time to call and follow up on that now - someone else want to try?

MojoMonkey wrote:Camping will not be allowed at the AAC when it is officially closed (some time in November through May 14th)

Despite the climbing season typically starting in March. Does the AAC think the Teton weather applies everywhere?

Its true, March and April can be pretty good climbing months, depending on the year. They shouldn't be waiting until May.

I am wondering if it isn't just this year that the start date is May 15th, due to having to ready certain aspects of the place for the first time, and in future years the start will be more appropriately timed.

I know there was a "work weekend" post on their FB page (located here: facebook.com/pages/American… - the work week post was dated March 4th), and I am wondering if perhaps there is a soft opening to get things going, but no online reservations until 5/15.

The work weekend is 4/4 and 4/5, and includes some basics like getting bear boxes and picnic tables put together and moved to sites. No doubt there are many other tasks which need to be done which we who haven't experience in the start-up of a campground aren't thinking of.

The one car per site thing I have to say... was not great design/planning. I can guess how people will respond and can say that you all(the general you all, not anyone specifically) are lucky I did not get the manager job, for you would
get blasted with both barrels of my big mouth when you muddied up everything and parked as you would despite knowing it is one car per site, and I would quickly get sick of having to defend the bad policy of one car per site. Hopefully they will go in and enlarge for two parking spaces per site. It just seems absurd to me they didn't in the first place.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: Making reservations for camping in the northeast is surely a gamble, especially if you want the deposit back. I've happily not camped in a few years anywhere in that area. :p

In the Northeast, reservations more than 3 days in advance if you live somewhat close is just plain stupid. Rain is always a possibility.

I used to live in Northern Green County, right on the Thruway, so it was about 50 minutes to the West Trapps lot. and just about 2 hours to Keene Valley. Worked out well since I consider the Gunks more a day trip and the Dacks better for a weekend or a week (or a month).

I generally do the same thing as Kevin. last year was the first year I camped down there in almost 10 years (before that, I almost lived there one summer). Camped 3 times actually. But now that i'm coming from north of Albany, it's nice to get a second day in without a 3 hour round trip. If I worked from home or something, I'd probably not mind the 90 minute drive as much.

On the flip side, I spend 2-3 days each weekend in the Adirondacks most of the summer, same distance, more scenic drive, no tolls, no fees or additional food cost (eat the same food I make at home). In the gunks I also need to eat dinner since cooking is sort of a pain. On the flip side, I do enjoy going out for a drink and food after a day in the Gunks.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: What's $12?

Half of a $24 site. I'm assuming if I climb I'll have a partner. If I have a partner I'll assume they'll split the site with me.

Matt Davis wrote:Sadly, the Mohonk Preserve these days is about monopolizing and monetizing access to the ridge. Personally I think the towns of Rochester, Marbletown, New Paltz, and Gardiner, should take the whole thing by eminent domain, and give it to the state. Make it a southern extension of Catskill State Park where climbing is free, not because the cost to access the preserve is unaffordable, but because monetizing access to such a degree has changed the spirit of the place. Mohonk seems to be about the egos of the executive staff and the board of directors. It seems to be about control; who can do what, where, and when. And above all it seems to be about money.

A yearly pass is $95, correct? It was $90 when I got my first pass in 2000. How are they monetizing it more than before. Personally, I think it's a bargain. It's private land that they charge what I consider a fair fee to climb.

When I briefly pulled plastic at the climbing gym for about 18 months (of my 15 years climbing), I was paying $100 a month for my wife and I to climb. That's $1200 a year. I can buy a pass for us both for $150 or something like that, and spend the other $1050 on gas, tolls and car maintenence. Seems like a bargain.

It's robbery compared to the 2 to 3 bucks it was back in early 80's... IF I lived there as a local, I guess it's a bargain rate for the annual pass. As a out of town climber just passing for a 3 to 4 day visit,,I'm paying more for the climbing than I am for the gas to drive out there 800 miles. That just doesn't sit well with me.

Woodchuck ATC wrote:It's robbery compared to the 2 to 3 bucks it was back in early 80's... IF I lived there as a local, I guess it's a bargain rate for the annual pass. As a out of town climber just passing for a 3 to 4 day visit,,I'm paying more for the climbing than I am for the gas to drive out there 800 miles. That just doesn't sit well with me.

It was $5 in 1981, which would be $13.60 today. The annual pass was $40 - equivalent to $108.83. Break-even on the 2015 annual pass is 5.6 days. If you're military you get a discount.

So the annual pass is actually cheaper and you're calling an extra $3.40/day (for 5 days) robbery.

Like others have said, this has been discussed to death on the forums, so maybe argue in one of those threads, but some realistic perspective would be nice.

J. Serpico wrote: A yearly pass is $95, correct? It was $90 when I got my first pass in 2000.

That's incorrect.

It was $80 just a few years ago, then went to $85, $90, and now $95. I haven't been climbing that long, and in just 7 years it's gone up almost 20% (18.75 to be exact). It's changing so often (almost each year now) that if you google you'll see a lot of climbing websites haven't kept up and have $85, two year old data.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: That's incorrect. It was $80 just a few years ago, then went to $85, $90, and now $95. I haven't been climbing that long, and in just 7 years it's gone up almost 20% (18.75 to be exact). It's changing so often (almost each year now) that if you google you'll see a lot of climbing websites haven't kept up and have $85, two year old data.

The annual pass was $85 in 2008. It went to $90 in 2012. That's hardly every year.

How much have alpine ski area lift tickets gone up, concert, movie, sporting event tickets? Recreational discretionary spending. Not exactly an earth shattering issue - especially when there are cheaper alternatives. Do you do the "it's not fair" whine about everything you think you can't afford?

$70 in 2002.
web.archive.org/web/2003022…

$85 in 2003.
web.archive.org/web/2003042…