Anchor building with the rope

So after a couple of these self-equalizing anchor threads (from which I learned quite a lot) I'm interested in the pros and con's of using the rope to build an anchor.

I'd been taught to use a cordelette and make a master point with a figure 8. That's what I use for trad unless I'm using a natural anchor (tree, decently sized boulder) or there are bolts. Even then I use the cordelette because it's what's there and makes sense. So I've never built a multi-point anchor with the rope. I'm not even sure how to do it other than lots of back and forth with the rope and clovehitches into a locker through my belay loop and where I'm tied in with the rope. But that's all vague concepts that I haven't put into practice. The most I've done is put the rope through a locker on the anchor and then tied in to a locker on my harness to extend myself from the anchor, to belay a second.

If anyone would care to explain how this is done, why it's a good idea, or why it isn't, or point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it. I feel it's good to know, even if I don't use it very often.

Bearbreeder posted some pretty great pictures illustrating the main ideas on another thread. I don't remember which thread, though.

teece303 wrote:Bearbreeder posted some pretty great pictures illustrating the main ideas on another thread. I don't remember which thread, though.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/multi-pitch-anchor-building-using-the-rope/109397635

I like the cordelette method (as tied using the lead rope)...simple and impossible to forget once you have done it once. The two end pieces can be eights or cloves.

Also, check out multipitchclimbing.com/

I'll take a shot at this since no one else has:

You arrive at the belay station and there is a crack straight above you that is also the next pitch. Assuming you are in a good stance position, plug a cam in @ chest high, grab 2 nuts put one in @ a foot above, the next a foot above that.

Clove hitch the cam, then the next piece (so that there is no slack to the cam), then the highest piece (again so that there is no slack to the middle piece).

Equalized. Done. Faster to do than explain. Much stronger and much faster than what you have been using. And you don't have to carry the clusterfuckolette all the way up the last pitch.

Lots of other ways to Monkeyfuck around, but that is the basic. I like the cam in lowest (if possible) in case a big fall above so I don't get pulled up and rip out a bottom nut. Like to save the cams for the leader. If you stick in 3 cams, no big deal as long as you didn't take the only 3 #1's off the rack and the crack above is a #1 size. (etc etc) Nothing different there than a clusterfuckolette though.

If you have 2 solid cam placements and a solid sitting belay, you should be gold if the first few placements for the next pitch are excellent etc etc.

Whoh, I type slow, 3 others posted up before me as I typed.

For three pieces aligned vertically, what Billcoe said (except for the "equalized" part, which won't be true, and in fact it is quite likely that only one piece will be loaded). For pieces spread horizontally,

Tie the butterfly powerpoint first, placing it at the level you want. The numbers give the clipping order. The "redirection point" is an optional feature. If you don't care about having a power point and are willing to deal with extra complication in a possible belay escape, you can skip the butterfly power point and instead clip back to the rope tie-in loop.

A second for multipitchclimbing.com. The method they call the "DIL" method is almost the same as the rigging shown here. Dave Coley posts here periodically. But don't just go there, buy the book.

There are variations of the above method on the web, and the differences are necessarily minor, but honestly, I think the one given here is the best in terms of efficiency and versatility. I think any method that requires you to estimate ahead of time how much rope some part of the anchor will need is going to be less effective in general than the process shown here, and some of the anchor methods are much harder to implement when the belay stance is out of reach of the anchors.

Bill has it right..ditch the cordalette and use your rope

Ok quick question I've been trying to figure out.. what's the easiest way to use the rope to build an anchor off a bomber tree? With and without an independent master point?

Tie the power point butterfly in the position you want the power point. Then either (1) walk around the tree and back to the belay stance and clove back to the power point, or put a sling with locker around the tree and put the rope through that and clove back to the power point. Option (2) is the way to go if there is sap running on the tree.

Nathanael wrote:Ok quick question I've been trying to figure out.. what's the easiest way to use the rope to build an anchor off a bomber tree? With and without an independent master point?

What I do is pass a bight of the rope around the tree and tie a bowline.

You'll have two separate ends leaving the tree: one to your climber and one to you. Leave enough rope so that you can adjust your position with a clove hitch on your harness and enough so that you can tie an alpine butterfly for a masterpoint, if desired.

If it's a pine tree, I sling the tree and clip my rope to the slings.

mountainproject.com/v/rope-…

I usually go back later and put bolts in so people arent rubbing trees so raw that sap is coming out of them.

Usually this, or some variation thereof. Original idea from Rgold's post above.

I had to disable comments in the video, after all the yahoos started screaming at me that I'm doing it wrong, or I'm an idiot for not using a cordelette, or some variation thereof. F'ing internet, what a treasure.

There weren't many "how-to" videos available when I was researching this a few years ago, so I figured I'd make something simple and straight forward. As if I give a rat's ass how others choose to build their anchors, I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.

youtube.com/watch?v=HQukLqi…

Jason Kim wrote:Usually this, or some variation thereof. Original idea from Rgold's post above. I had to disable comments in the video, after all the yahoos started screaming at me that I'm doing it wrong, or I'm an idiot for not using a cordelette, or some variation thereof. F'ing internet, what a treasure. There weren't many "how-to" videos available when I was researching this a few years ago, so I figured I'd make something simple and straight forward. As if I give a rat's ass how others choose to build their anchors, I'm getting a headache just thinking about it. youtube.com/watch?v=HQukLqi…

dont get bitter just roll with it especially if you are putting it out there, looks good to me. I'd be happy with it.

Here's an ice climbing version of rgold's setup without the butterfly powerpoint, so harder to escape the belay.

climbinglife.com/instructio…

Thanks for all the replied, everybody. That's a lot to be thinking about.

Can I assume using the rope is typically more hassle when you are leading every pitch, rather than swinging leads?

Mathias wrote:Thanks for all the replied, everybody. That's a lot to be thinking about. Can I assume using the rope is typically more hassle when you are leading every pitch, rather than swinging leads?

Yes and no

A full rope anchor is more hassle for block leads

But a Partial rope anchor can be just as fast or faster overall ... This is because you sont waste time trying to make that cord/sling stretch to 3 pieces

The basic idea is to build a 2 piece anchor with a sling and top belay off that ... When the second gets to the belay they plug in the 3rd piece and the upwards pull one if needed as theyll have more gear then ... And cloves to them using the rope ... So you only need a normal sling for the anchor and not long cord

If needed the leader can also use put in A 3rd piece and use the rope on that if more than 2 r needed for a top belay

For 4 piece anchors, just use build 2 normal 2 piece sling anchor and use the "2 piece rope anchor" ... When yr partner comes up they simply use their own "2 piece rope anchor"

Using a rope/sling composite anchor can be faster if both folks know what they are doing as it saves trying to build 3-4+ piece anchors and making the cord stretch ... The transition however may require an extra locker or two

Ill see if i can take some pics of examples when im at the crag tmr

;)

rgold wrote:Tie the power point butterfly in the position you want the power point. Then either (1) walk around the tree and back to the belay stance and clove back to the power point, or put a sling with locker around the tree and put the rope through that and clove back to the power point. Option (2) is the way to go if there is sap running on the tree.

I feel like smiling when I do this. So simple and quick.

Also great for boulders: Pull up some rope, throw it over the boulder, knot and biner it, done. Use a cordalette instead of the rope if there are sharp edges.

If you need the guide the rope or the boulder is a bit bigger: Step up onto the boulder to guide the rope around, then climb back down and secure it. I usually find this easier than walking around, b/c of rope drag.

Nathanael wrote:Ok quick question I've been trying to figure out.. what's the easiest way to use the rope to build an anchor off a bomber tree? With and without an independent master point?

Pull a bight around the tree and clove it to ur extended PAS ...

The PAS biner becomes the attachment point for the autoblock/redirect

;)

I use Rgolds anchor minus the powerpoint (edit: and redirect) probably about half the time. One nice thing about it that nobody's commented on is that you don't have to pull up a whole bunch of slack at once to build it. The same goes for taking it down to go on belay again. There is no need to sling yourself to a couple pieces while you build or take apart some monstrous rope eating triple figure eight. Or even to make yourself secure before busting out a cordalette. The first two pieces of the anchor don't introduce any more slack than just clipping into those same pieces in order to "take" and build something else. I don't use it for every gear anchor but it could be made to work for damn near every gear anchor. So for the OP I guess I'd say that Rgolds version is a really good place to start.

Hi, Hopefully a couple of useful comments:

1. re Jasons video. I sometimes use a setup similar to this but - I form the main overhand/butterfly as my first act. Then simply rig everything from there on a big fat HMS. And I don't have a separate powerpoint for the reverso. This seems faster, uses less rope and all pieces are weighted by both leader and second.
2. I have timed how long various systems take - using the rope is not slower than a cordelette, even when not swinging leaders. The key is to carry 3 carabiners (your magic carabiners). The second simply clips these to the three pieces and ties in.
3. If the anchor is bolted, and the bolts are high quality, and I'm swinging leads then I do the following, which is faster. (a) clove hitch rope to first bolt on big locker, (b) clove hitch to second bolt (i.e. the bolts are in series and no attempt is made to equalise, or form a powerpoint, (c) reverso's locker is clipped metal-to-metal onto the first locker. If you don't like metal-to-metal, carry the reverso on the shortest draw you can find. Typical time 9 seconds.
4. a sensible way to act is not to confine yourself to a single system. Do whatever you fancy that is safe, or the belay suggests. For example if I'm climbing with the family in a four I would normally use a cordelette, as it is possibly safer due to its ease of being read. I might even include a rigging plate! The speed and weight won't matter as I'm already carrying food and water for four, spare clothing, everyone's shoes and a teddy bear. On trad with poor seven-piece anchors I would normally use the rope. On easy ground and a bolted anchor I normally won't stop to belay, just clip one bolt with a microtrax and keep going.

The only thing I know of that is faster (and doesn't involve belaying with a munter, or moving together) is the following. This only really works on multi pitch bolted climbs, any maybe not on the crux pitch. Its speed in part comes from the simplicity of the system, but mainly from the way it just shouts SPEED to both members of the team. It can halve the time a route takes for this reason.
1. reach belay, clip rope to bolt with locker or draw, but don't tie off.
2. climb to first bolt on next pitch, clip with draw
3 lower yourself back to stance. clove hitch locker, shout safe, clove hitch second bolt
4 belay second (using a grigri seems the natural device here) via the redirect.
5 whilst second is climbing, clip any remaining draws into a single bunch and clip this to one of the bolts. drink and eat.
6 when second reaches the stance, she takes the bunch and keeps going; she must not stop; it is best if you don't talk.
7 she will be top roping up to the first bolt, so will go fast, and will not suffer the normal jitters of moving from seconding as fast as possible to on-lead-must-go-slow.