Critique my cross country itinerary!

As climbers often do I started daydreaming about possible climbing road trips. I have a month+ (Sept 1st - Oct. 15th) this fall that is commitment free and I want to visit some pals out in Washington. So...naturally, this happened...

Starting in Vermont:

Bolton, Vermont (Just to start things off local!)
Adirondacks, New York
Gunks, New York
New River Gorge, West Virginia
Red River Gorge, Kentucky
Devil's Lake, Wisconsin
Blue Mounds State Park, Minnesota
Rapid City Region, South Dakota
Spearfish Canyon, South Dakota
Devil's Tower, Wyoming
Ten Sleep Canyon, Wyoming
Bozeman Region, Montana
Spire Rock, Montana
Q'Emilin Park, Idaho
Central Cascades, Washington
Enumclaw Region Cascades, Washington

End in Seattle.

Are there any areas listed that aren't worth the side trip? I know some are small but they also serve the purpose of breaking up a long drive. The plan would be to spend at least a day in each spot and likely more like 2 or 3.

Are there any areas that fit the "Well, if you are already going here, you might as well go here!" category?

Are there any MUST DO routes for the areas listed?

Any obvious oversights?

Thanks!

EDIT: Since so many people have asked...

Trad is rad but bolts ain't bad. I enjoy both equally.

Trad - Leading upper 11
Sport - Leading 12

Also, as a Vermont climber who has climbed here in every month but January and February in the Northeast I like to think my willingness to climb in subpar conditions is at an all-time high. :)

Lastly, this list is not a final itinerary as much as a list of ideas.

Smith Rock?

Squamish

squamish, definitely go to squamish.

That's a lot of driving for one month. Also, depending on which month, some of the places may be out for the season.

If you are working with only a month you are going to want to slim that list down. Skip the northeast go straight to the red. Spend a week there and shoot straight for SD/WY. Spend 2-3 days at Devils tower then head on over to ten sleep for another week of classic bolt clipping. Replace ten sleep with vedauwoo if you are more into gear. From here shoot to squmaish or smith rock depending on time situation. While you are in Seattle don't forget about index and Leavenworth. The list you have looks great but you are looking at more like a 3 month road trip to hit all of that...

Also I found that spending a day in a climbing area is pointless and near impossible. Hit the bigger more classic spots and spend AT LEAST 3-4 days getting on the classics. You won't regret it believe me and you will be much less stressed out on the road running from one area to the next barely getting any climbing in.

You asked for critique, so I'll lay it on thick. Apologies for the upcoming manifesto on roadtripping, but I'm stuck in a tiny cabin in an huge rainstorm, so I'm bored. Anyway, to me, that plan looks like a pretty poor way to use a month-long trip. I take it that this is one of the first really big climbing roadtrips you have planned? There are some pretty signficant rookie-mistakes in the planning. Some major mistakes are:

1. Too many destinations, not enough time at each: Experienced roadtrippers almost unanimously agree that it is more rewarding to spend longer portions of time a a smaller number of areas. A week+ each at 3 major crags, or two weeks each at two crags, or a whole month spent really immersing yourself in one amazing area, will be more rewarding in the end that spreading yourself thin and doing a couple of pitches each at two dozen different crags. At a new crag, it usually takes at least a few days to figure out the climbing style, which walls are best, the camping scene, the partner situation, etc. Often the first day at an area is kind of low-value, as you work the kinks out and try to figure the place out. With 1-2 weeks at an area, you can figure the place out enough to be able to appreciate it properly.

2. Not enough consideration of month/season: There really isn't a month where both the Red and Tensleep are in-season, etc. You should plan your trip to hit those areas where the weather will be absoluetely prime. You can basically choose from any set of 1-4 crags (and no more, see above) in the northern US, so there really is no need to settle for anything less than perfect weather. What month are you travelling in? "Fall" offers a very wide range of weather; this should dictate where you go. If it is August/September, target places like Tensleep or Squamish. If it is October/November, places like the New/Red, the desert SW, or Smith are better choices.

3. Wasting time close to home: Yes, the ADKs are amazing. But you can go there pretty much whenever you want, being from Vermont. Opprotunities to go to a far-away crag are more rare, so use that opprotunity to it's maximum. Plus, by the time the trip gets started, you'll probably be antsy to get moving anyway. Leave home, commit to the 3 days of pain to get to Wyoming, and then spend the whole month in the West.

4. Wasting time at low-value climbing areas: If you have a choice between spending a day at Blue Mounds versus an extra day in Tensleep, Devil's Tower, etc... for the love of god spend the extra day at Tensleep. A month really isn't that much time, and there is no reason to waste a single day on mediocrity. You can be at basically any area along that trip path, so you really shouldn't settle for anything less than the best. Honestly, at least half of those areas on you list probably aren't worth including on a national circuit.

5. The partner situation. Are you travelling solo? If so, go to major destinations in their peak season. If you show up at some obscure, remote crag on a random weekday by yourself, you probably won't find anyone to climb with. At a place like the New in October, or Ten Sleep in August, there will we dozens of possible climbing partners avaialble if you go to the main climber's camping areas. In any case, it often takes a few days to figure out the scene and find people to climb with that you really click with, so staying 1-2 weeks at an area will give you much better partner options. Plus, with a few weeks you'll get to know those people and maybe even make some long-term friends and climbing partners; this doesn't happen if you only have a day.

6. Too much moving around: Every time you pack up and move to a new area, you lose time to packing up, driving around looking for the camping zones, getting lost trying to find the crags, not knowing where to buy groceries, and so on. You'll spend less time on logisitcs and get in a lot more (and higher-value) climbing if you don't move around so much. It is generally more efficient to devote 1-3 full days to driving, and then post up at a climbing area, than to try to do many consecutive days of 1/2 day climbing and 1/2 day driving. Staying in one place for a while without having to drive is more relaxing, too; driving 200 miles each day is exhausting.

7. Consideration of climbing style: What kind of climbing do you most prefer? Multi-pitch trad? Sport? A mix? For me, my best trips have been when I choose one genre of climbing a the basic theme of the trip and stick to it, instead of trying to do a little of everything. I've had great trips where I've only clipped bolts for 3 months, and also trips dedicated mostly to multi-pitch. I find that this lets me really get into the groove of that climbing style, with its techniques and headspace. This also simplifies the packingr equirements for gear. That said, if you truly are an all-around climber and want to do a little of everything, that is great too...and you can easily find areas that offer every type of climbing, such that you can climb a long trad route one day and go bouldering the next, then go sport climbing. City of Rocks and Squamish come to mind as good examples.

8. Some great destinations missing from the list: Add City of Rocks, Smith, and Squamish to your to-consider list, among others. Generally speaking, it is worth goinga bit further out of your way to go to the best areas, especially if you spend a week there.

So there's the manifesto. In short, you should think about when you are going to travel and what kind of climbing you want to do, and then pick 2 or 3 crags to visit that will offer the best weather and the best climbing. If you want to post those things here (especially the month, since Sept vs. Nov is a big difference), I'm sure that people will have some great suggestions.

Thomas Gilmore wrote:If you are working with only a month you are going to want to slim that list down. Skip the northeast go straight to the red. Spend a week there and shoot straight for SD/WY. Spend 2-3 days at Devils tower then head on over to ten sleep for another week of classic bolt clipping. Replace ten sleep with vedauwoo if you are more into gear. From here shoot to squmaish or smith rock depending on time situation. While you are in Seattle don't forget about index and Leavenworth. The list you have looks great but you are looking at more like a 3 month road trip to hit all of that... Also I found that spending a day in a climbing area is pointless and near impossible. Hit the bigger more classic spots and spend AT LEAST 3-4 days getting on the classics. You won't regret it believe me and you will be much less stressed out on the road running from one area to the next barely getting any climbing in.

This is solid advice and a solid itinerary. If anything, I'd skip the Red on this trip too. Not because the Red isn't amazing (it is, obviously), but because from Vermont the Red is accessible any time you have a week free. With a month, you should focus on the crags that are harder for you to get to.

Looks like a lot of driving setting up camp etc., were you looking to climb at all? Usually takes me a coupla days just to figure an area out, and personally consider anything less than 5 days of climbing a waste of time, to each his own I suppose.

Great advice so far. All I'll add is that the City of Rocks should definitely be on your list. You could easily spend a week at the City/Castle Rocks and it would be a huge missed opportunity if you didn't.

My two cents: Nothing on your itinerary between the Red River Gorge and the Black Hills/Spearfish is worth the stop. I understand it's a 20-hour drive from the Red to Rapid City, but I would cover that ground in as few days as possible.

If you must stop along the way to get your climbing fix or break up the drive, stop at Devils Lake, WI, and then haul ass to Rapid City. I've been to Devils Lake and Blue Mounds (can't speak for Palisades Park), and Devils Lake is the bigger and better (and more popular/crowded) of the two. I know what you're thinking, "Well, I'll be driving right by Blue Mounds and Palisades Park, and it's the only climbing for a few hundred miles, so I might as well check them out." Don't do it. The rock type at Devils Lake, Blue Mounds, and Palisades Park is exactly the same -- Sioux Quartzite -- so you wouldn't get to experience any new types of climbing. It's the same rock, only with fewer route options and less picturesque scenery. (Geology sidenote: those three places are also the only three places in the country (world?) where that rock type exists.) The Black Hills and Spearfish are rad. Your time will be better spent in the car in order to get an extra day of climbing there.

Just in case anyone accuses me of being biased against the Midwest -- I am a Midwesterner and have lived here for almost 35 years. There are many great things about the Midwest, rock climbing is not one of them. Go West, young man. Better climbing awaits.

I climbed Q'emlin Park for two days. Easy place to lead or TR solo. Easy to navigate. Early in the mornings, I had the park to myself. By afternoon, there were several parties at the very first crag. While I was there, I only saw one other party toward the back of the park--maybe a 20 minute walk. Good rock. Convenient anchors. Some slab climbing and lots of easy trad. I enjoyed it.

Having done many trips like yours, I can tell you that smaller/local crags can be just as rewarding as destination crags. But I'm not a classics chaser, and that's a big factor for some climbers.

I should add that I would find it fun to stop in the small spots if for no other reason than to say I've climbed in different states. That being said, I think cutting Palisades Park is likely as with Spire. Perhaps even Ten Sleep.

The advice is awesome!

I should also mention that it could easily be 5-6 weeks.

JCM wrote: If anything, I'd skip the Red on this trip too. Not because the Red isn't amazing (it is, obviously), but because from Vermont the Red is accessible any time you have a week free. With a month, you should focus on the crags that are harder for you to get to.

I hate to admit it but you might have a point. I wouldn't skip NRG since I've never been but I've climbed at the Red a few times and I know I'll be back again.

Sport/trad both ?

If it's trad, drive direct to veedawoo (only a 1+ day)..maybe RMNP and then to Squamish

Some sport / go to Canmore for some cool aline sport stuff

Hi Kris! Start your trip by sending booty fingers at upper!!! Do you know Brian from UVM? Last I heard from Connor he was living in Veedawoo.

Conor Mark wrote:Hi Kris! Start your trip by sending booty fingers at upper!!! Do you know Brian from UVM? Last I heard from Connor he was living in Veedawoo.

Hey Conor, hope all is well in your post-VT life. Just so you know Dylan and I are gunning for your crack project asap! I'll get on Booty Fingers once the snow melts. Also, me and Brian are tight. He's in Boulder now.

Since people have asked...

Trad is rad but bolts ain't bad. I enjoy both equally.

Trad - Leading upper 11
Sport - Leading 12

KrisFiore wrote: I hate to admit it but you might have a point. I wouldn't skip NRG since I've never been but I've climbed at the Red a few times and I know I'll be back again.

Again, what month??? You're not going to be climbing at some of those areas in November; you'll not want to climb at some of the other areas in September.

Regarding the NRG - it's even easier to get to than the RRG from VT, but you'll be spending what you will discover to be precious little time going extra miles south instead of west.

Time is not an issue. I'm doing this more to cover ground and see cool spots than to crush super hard. (Again, keeping in mind this was daydreaming. :D)

It would likely be Sept 1st-October 15th...ish

JCM wrote:6. Too much moving around: Every time you pack up and move to a new area, you lose time to packing up, driving around looking for the camping zones, getting lost trying to find the crags, not knowing where to buy groceries, and so on. You'll spend less time on logisitcs and get in a lot more (and higher-value) climbing if you don't move around so much. It is generally more efficient to devote 1-3 full days to driving, and then post up at a climbing area, than to try to do many consecutive days of 1/2 day climbing and 1/2 day driving. Staying in one place for a while without having to drive is more relaxing, too; driving 200 miles each day is exhausting.

Jon, I appreciate your comments, as always.

However, my wife and I used to really enjoy weeklong road trips hitting a different crag each day. We were super efficient at camping and knew where we were going and what we wanted to do before we got there. Wouldn't want to try the same strategy for a month though.

Breaking up a long drive by stopping to climb, even if at an obscure crag, is a lot pleasanter than driving all day. We'd climb most of the day, then drive for 4-5 hours at night before putting together camp in the dark. Can cover a lot of territory and still do a lot of climbing.

In addition to Smith and Squamish, the North Cascades are good as well.