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Kiwi coil question

climber57 Jones · · Saint John, NB · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 60

Interesting points from all. Thanks guys. Ill definitely look into the guide thing. Im just supper cheap hhaha. I might even be able to get my parents to contribute some, since you know... Im gonna die

jmeizis · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 230

It's not the climbing difficulty that gets you, it's the objective hazards you don't recognize or the inability to apply the best technique for the situation or conditions.

Take the Sulphide on Shuksan. The glacier travel is super straightforward if you know what you're looking for. I've only looked at it from the top but there's not really any seracs to avoid. Early season the crevasses are covered so even someone unroped would probably be ok. So even someone who doesn't know anything about glacier travel could probably get up the thing. Then when they succeed they'd get trapped in that positive feedback loop (ie, I didn't die so I must of did it right! Bzzz...wrong).

If they then turn around and try to run up the N. Face of Shuksan they may unwittingly expose themselves to more hazards because they don't recognize the big ice cliff they've been wandering around under trying to find a way around the big bergschrund.

If you can climb ice then the climbing part of glacier routes will be pretty straightforward. The judgment stuff you can gain with experience (will this snow bridge really hold???) but that judgment can be passed to you from others with more experience which makes your progress quicker.

There are a ton of little things that add up to efficiency and progress that you just won't get on your own or gather from someone who doesn't have years of solid experience (not, I-survived-didn't-I! experience). Should you tie in from the end or the middle? Tie knots in the rope or not? Skinny glacier rope, regular climbing rope, halves, pickets or ice screws (both?)? What does a covered crevasse look like? Should we move together or pitch this out. Should we follow each other or go one below the other.

Your safety is your responsibility but if you screw it up someone else is going to have to come get you, putting themselves at risk. There is a lot of general alpine sense that needs to be cultivated when moving into glaciated terrain which I don't think you can really get without getting into glaciated terrain. I don't know where you're starting from but I would say if you haven't spent some time practicing basic snow climbing skills that would be a good place to start. A solid self arrest is the precursor to crevasse rescue. Pretty grim outcome if everyone gets stuck in the hole.

I teach some alpine courses in Colorado, private guided climbs in the Cascades that are pretty reasonable with multiple people and cover crevasse rescue. Some of the big guide services will do summit climbs combined with teaching basic skills which are usually pretty good and you get to summit something cool usually. Clubs in Colorado and Washington (probably out east as well) generally have intro mountaineering courses that may be cheaper but you're in a group and kind of get what you pay for which may be enough.

Your ticklist suggests you're out east. Katahdin and Mt. Washington are pretty good for basic snow climbing skills. The slides in the Adirondacks are pretty good alpine objectives for combining ice and snow skills and are kind of alpiney. If you do decide to get a guide out that way I can give you some names.

There's not anything wrong with starting slow and building up. It just takes a lot of time and you expose yourself to a lot of risk, sometimes without even knowing it. If your first rock lead was essentially a solo then think the same thing about your first time on glacier, except in addition to a simple slip being your end it could be something just breaks off and crushes you, or you step in the wrong spot and pop into a hole forever. Unfortunately, real alpine climbing is pretty difficult to dirtbag. I lost a good chunk of my rack the first time I tried the W. Arete of Eldorado (lesson: work on route finding). But because of the knowledge I gained from professional instruction I didn't lose the whole thing and we got out in one piece (I did core shot my rope on our last rappel!) So in the end a guide may actually save you money when you don't waste your whole rack retreating if you do get in over your head. So pretty win-win in my opinion.

climber57 Jones · · Saint John, NB · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 60

Ya Im from east but Im headed west this summer. Not sure what you mean by its hard to dirt bag alpine climbing (other then losing your rack....). Right now I lead 5.11 sport and 5.10 trad, and WI 3+ ice(NB/Quebec) fyi. I feel comfortable for the Bugaboos this summer, but my partner and I might attempt some more serious mountaineering in Banff, Coastal BC, or Vancouver Island etc. (havent done complete research yet). Basically just want to be able to travel across glaciers safely. Basically everyone has said to get a guide. So, ya Im gonna look into that out west.

J. Serpico · · Saratoga County, NY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 140

Yer gunna die...plain and simple!

climber57 Jones · · Saint John, NB · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 60

I plan on it eventually

Seth Warren · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 0
Brendan Magee wrote:I actually have an extra copy of the book if you want it. I'll donate it if you want to pay shipping or local pickup in Denver area. A good way to practice crevasse rescue is if you have a small crag where you can secure a top rope. One person is lowered on a secure line, the other person up top is then able to practice setting up pulley systems. I've also done this by myself on flat ground just using sandbags as the person who fell in.
I'll snag that copy off of you if its still available, Brendan. Thanks much!
Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
Seth Warren wrote: I'll snag that copy off of you if its still available, Brendan. Thanks much!
Hi Seth,

I moved recently and it's buried somewhere in a box. Give me a chance to dig through and see if I can find it.

Brendan
Seth Warren · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 0
Brendan Magee wrote: Hi Seth, I moved recently and it's buried somewhere in a box. Give me a chance to dig through and see if I can find it. Brendan
Thanks so much, keep me posted! No worries if its gone for good.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Mountaineering
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