cochise development

Tim Lutz wrote: Because by and large they dont even see a second ascent. From your profile, and I think maybe you did a write up a few years ago, you did the BY. So, you trained in Philly and went and crushed the BY, and that is frickin awesome. And you arent the only one to repeat the BY, it seems to get several repeats a years. Therefore, the BY is entirely relevent, but this is not the case with the vast majority of slabby 5.11 puckerfests. IMO, it isnt the likesbof Jon or myself that are questioning the lockdown on adding bolts to old routes, it is the defenders of FA Tradition that need to get off their keyboards to do the repeats.

Lutz.... you make no sense. Many of us Keyboard jockeys climb all the time...

So your saying that the number of ascents is what makes a climb good?

If you feel so strongly about 5.11 slab pucker fests, why don't you go put up a "well bolted" climb on the same general piece of stone.... ???? You wouldn't be the first to do this and many climbers would applaud your efforts..... just like what has been goin on in TM for the last decade.

Tim Lutz wrote: Because by and large they dont even see a second ascent. From your profile, and I think maybe you did a write up a few years ago, you did the BY. So, you trained in Philly and went and crushed the BY, and that is frickin awesome. And you arent the only one to repeat the BY, it seems to get several repeats a years. Therefore, the BY is entirely relevent, but this is not the case with the vast majority of slabby 5.11 puckerfests. IMO, it isnt the likesbof Jon or myself that are questioning the lockdown on adding bolts to old routes, it is the defenders of FA Tradition that need to get off their keyboards to do the repeats.

I climb runnout slab and enjoy it. I'm not the only one. Your and Jon Ruland's point seems to be that these routes are all over the place, have unreliable hardware, and that nobody climbs them. I generally think that this is the exception. Where are all of these mega classic slabby 5.11 puckerfests that need to be retroed so that the community (whatever that is) can safely enjoy them?

If there is a climb that you really want to do, but are unwilling currently lead due to lack of protection can't you find the humility to TR it (I realize that this isn't always simple)? Or move on to something else? Perhaps a more rewarding experience could be had by climbing better protected routes of a similar style and grade until you are ready. This takes some time (years for me) and I suspect people aren't willing to put in the work.

Tim Lutz wrote:Ok, you guys win, Ill stop training front levers and start doing sphincter crunches.

I think it's the opposite, sphincter relaxation meditation...

Tim Lutz wrote:Ok, you guys win, Ill stop training front levers and start doing sphincter crunches.

Those do nothing for your slab skillz....

instead go to Suicide and climb on the weeping wall.... lower numbers but climbing on that stuff will get your head into it.

then come back and argue that bolts need to be added to slabs.

Generally speaking the more intelligent a person the less likely they are to risk life and limb. That being said wouldn't that mean the runout scarefests are already "dumbed down to the ability of the lowest common denominator"?

Tim Lutz wrote:I said to be relevent, maybe (some) routes should be done more than once in 30 years, especially by those that profess to enjoy that style.

I would say they get more relevant with every passing year they go unclimbed. Relevant because it's a clear statement on climbers and the devolution of climbing which, who knows, may be turned around some day by someone bored out of the fucking minds doing endless, risk-free clip-up jobs.

Baylord wrote:Times are changing, people have real jobs now and days.

Funny, I knew guys who carried full loads in medical school yet still managed to put up a bunch of totally stout stuff and continued to do so long after they were in practice. But now the "real jobs" of today are somehow an excuse for not sacking up? Hey, who knew...

Mike Diesen wrote:Generally speaking the more intelligent a person the less likely they are to risk life and limb.

The hits just keep on coming. It appears there's obviously an endless well of rationales for not simply sacking up and getting it done, but this one is a real gem.

You people that want all routes accessible to all people are so cute sometimes. I just want to give you a big hug and tell you it's going to be okay. See right over here a well protected route have Addit oh look there's another one how about it oh wait it turns out there are thousands of them all over the planet. There are even some in Cochise.

And since the op said his friends have put up tons of rad routes well then maybe they put up enough and should call it quits and leave some rock for some other people. Just saying

Tim Lutz said...

"I never said bolts need to be added to slabs."

So just what are you trying to say???

I don't buy your argument that just cause some climb doesn't get repeated it not valid.

Tons of climbs around here (California) with no second assents, or they rarely get climbed.

The Dark Side at (Needles)is a good example. Thats a climb, there were several eye witness to the feat, and just cause Ron Carson hung up his boots and its been like 25 years sense the FA, should it be put on the list to become a "Sport Climb"????

The Edge at Taquitz.... this one gets climbed about every 4-5 years.

Romantic Warrior ..... that went for 10-15 years before people re-discovered it, now its one of the go to climbs for the younger generation. - and no bolts were added.

Liquid Sky.... was way run on bad bolts, we fixed the bolts and now it is a coveted prize for hard ball climbers.

Some climbs should just be left to collect dust, and these climbs at Cochise are only 5.11 pucker fests, your words- not mine.

Come on- 5.11, is the new 5.8 esp to all you types who cruze 5.12.

Man up, and stop embarrassing yourselves with all this crying.

Mike Diesen wrote:Generally speaking the more intelligent a person the less likely they are to risk life and limb.

Generally speaking making stuff up makes one look like a tool. A wedge even, the simplest of all tools.

Am I the only one that finds the hypocrisy in climbing so entertaining? Basically everyone calls each other selfish so that they can selfishly get their ways on both sides of the isle.

On a side note tradition is not actually a logical argument but it sure makes for great hyperbole

This thread has had a few Rad developments in 4 pages.

#radretrotheslabs

Greg D wrote:You people that want all routes accessible to all people are so cute sometimes. I just want to give you a big hug and tell you it's going to be okay. See right over here a well protected route have Addit oh look there's another one how about it oh wait it turns out there are thousands of them all over the planet. There are even some in Cochise. And since the op said his friends have put up tons of rad routes well then maybe they put up enough and should call it quits and leave some rock for some other people. Just saying

i appreciate your contribution to this thread and i would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Well, that was good for 30 mins of laughs and a few BP bumps.

So basically, the future of climbing has to wait for all these old troglodyte crusty freaks to die, and then finally climbing can progress as a sport once again. Please take your self-righteous and antiquated demands and leave this earth as soon as possible, preferably an a painful slab without bolts, thank you.

Sir chuffs alot wrote:So basically, the future of climbing has to wait for all these old troglodyte crusty freaks to die, and then finally climbing can progress as a sport once again. Please take your self-righteous and antiquated demands and leave this earth as soon as possible, preferably an a painful slab without bolts, thank you.

Sir cuffs.... so why don't you grab the bull by the horns, get out there and start fixing the roots....

see how long the crusty old troglodytes in AZ leave you alone.

People like you are all talk and bluster.

That is a real self-righteous demand if you ask me.

But wait- your a real hardman, and to afraid of some runout, to do what someone in EBs could manage while you were still in diapers, oh sorry I see you still wear diapers.

But i bet that before the sport progresses any farther, you will have moved on to another "hobby".

And you should move this to "general" and not hide it in the AZ forum, lets see how RAD the rest of the world thinks your ideas are.

later

I think Sir... has a misplaced C in his name and the glue has gotten to the brain cells.

Tim Lutz wrote: So a Giant would be Jimbo? Awesome, Ill update my list: Tommy, Kevin, Killis Howard.... Jimbo!

LOL, literally and figuratively?

Sending-Gravy!!!!

Mike Diesen wrote:Generally speaking the more intelligent a person the less likely they are to risk life and limb. That being said wouldn't that mean the runout scarefests are already "dumbed down to the ability of the lowest common denominator"?

Interesting... The way I see it, runout climbs require much more careful evaluation and analyzation, and in general require more mental faculties than most other genres of the sport. I mean, Honnold had a 4.something GPA in high school before going on to study engineering and Matt Wilder has his PhD in something along the lines of computer neuro science... These guys have done some heady stuff. Only two examples, I know, but I would hardly say these guys represent the "lowest common denominator". Hard or scary climbing is definitely a thinking man's game in my mind.

sack up, man up, have some balls... does this thread have a slightly homosexual undertone being set by the old rusty bolt lovers?

oh looky, a whole new old man discussion has been started at the Taco about this thread...zzzzzz

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