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Paying out rope with Mammut Smart
eli poss wrote:Disclaimer: This is not exactly how the instructions show how to do it I 100% absolutely never have my break hand off the rope, even when i'm feeding slack. here is what i do: anticipating needing to give slack, i slide my break hand down the rope a small bit, never letting my grip go. with my 4 fingers and palm still gripping the rope, i lift up on the lever with my thumb to feed the slack out and then return to breaking position. granted this requires you to always be paying 100% attention, especially when you cannot see the climber. now, is there anything inherently wrong with this technique that is going to kill both my partner and me the next time i so much as touch the device?as long as yr brake hand is solid i would be fine with it i use the same technique myself, but on a grigri with thick fuzzy ropes which can be impossible to feed except with the fast feed method basically i slide my hand down the rope with a good grip, brink my brake hand to the fast feed position and then feed out the looop of slack ... then slide the brake hand back down of course you do all of this at your own and yr partners risk ... as long as yr both fine with it ;) |
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I love my smart and haven't had many issues with it since the learning curve ended. When I pay out rope I lift the nose up with my thumb and pull rope through with my off hand. I've never been able to belay with it as if it were an atc or gri. |
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i've been using BD rocklock without problems but i've heard that petzl william works better. most pearabiners will work. a roundstock biner will work smoother and will last significantly longer. |
eli poss wrote:i've been using BD rocklock without problems but i've heard that petzl william works better. most pearabiners will work. a roundstock biner will work smoother and will last significantly longer.Have you had any issues with the biner rotating around and becoming cross loaded? I've used the pearabiner a few times and it wound up with the screwgate getting caught in the slot of the smart, jamming the rope. |
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Just my two cents, I've used the Smart exclusively as my lead belay device for about a year now, using a Petzl William Autolock as the belay biner. After a little adjustment period, I can belay more smoothly with the Smart than with the Gri-Gri 2, and I like that if someone unexpectedly short ropes you, even while feeding slack, my hand is always in a position to open the device and stop the braking, but it is still auto-locking or "auto-assist." (I really like it over the Gri-Gri because I got it on sale for $13 bucks on STP.) I have used it with 9.8-10.2mm ropes and it is occasionally awkward to lower or single rope rap, especially with thicker ropes, it's highly dependent on your and the climbers weight. I mainly use an ATC to rappel. |
Lee Keybum wrote: Have you had any issues with the biner rotating around and becoming cross loaded? I've used the pearabiner a few times and it wound up with the screwgate getting caught in the slot of the smart, jamming the rope.once, maybe twice in around 9 months of use i've had the biner rotate so that the gate was stuck on the belay loop, but at that point i wasn't perfectly comfortable with the smart and was holding it weird (hard to explain in words). i've never got the gate caught in the slot. if you were using a mini pearabiner that might be why; you need a big belay biner. |
bearbreeder wrote: now theres nothing wrong with teaching to bring the other hand below the brake but it is not a substitute for proper brake hand proficiency with their main braking hand ;)oh i wasn't claiming that. Basically I'm suggesting perform the catch wherever your brake hand is at the time of the fall. Don't try and move it down then catch. If your hand is on the device when the fall occurs catch there - as the instructions show you. My comments about bringing the other hand down are just an aside, something that should be done as a matter of course. I do agree keeping the the hand below the device is more ideal, but I find if the climber is fast and/or the bolt distance is pretty close (indoor) there isn't much time to go on device / off device. Sometimes while holding the device I just reach under and pull slack rather than doing a full transition and pulling a loop like I would atc style. Depends on what's going on, how fast the person is climbing, how high they clip etc etc. |
Lee Keybum wrote: Have you had any issues with the biner rotating around and becoming cross loaded? I've used the pearabiner a few times and it wound up with the screwgate getting caught in the slot of the smart, jamming the rope.no, I've been using both the smart and alpine for several years but I always use petzl williams or the one sold with the belay package for the smart. |
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Is paying out rope hard with this device? Is there anyone out there that doesn't like this device? Ive never used it but I was belayed by someone recently who used it and I was short roped like a mofo every time on lead. Even after telling him not to short rope me, it still happened. Just looked like he was struggling to feed rope out every time I clipped a piece. I don't think I'll ever use it or buy it but I'm curious about climbing with people using this on me in the future. What's up with this thing and what should I look for to get a nice smooth belay? |
costaserrano wrote: Basically I'm suggesting perform the catch wherever your brake hand is at the time of the fall. Don't try and move it down then catch. If your hand is on the device when the fall occurs catch there - as the instructions show you.thats what i thought when i first got the smart ... folks have been dropped using the "keep hand on smart handle" around here .... and once or twice ive hand partners fall an extra 10+ feet when im belaying em before i realized that the "official" method is flawed the problem as ive said is that the slightest bit of upwards pressure on the handle during a fall can mean that the smart doesnt lock (yes mammut says to push out and not up, go see folks belay with a smart in real life the difference of a few degrees is something they never notice) ... this is prevalent when someone is feeding out the rope for a clip and the climber falls ... it also can happen if the belayer stumbles during the fall when pulled in and the hand inadvertently pulls the handle up ... it happens so fast in a fall the reaction time may well be minimal moving the hand down to fully grasp the rope should be absolutely instinctive for any competent belayer ... the big flaw with the smart is that yr always feeding the rope with the "fast feed" method, ir defeating the camming action ... many folks do the same with the grigri and keep their thumb on the cam ... if you always keep the hand on the smart handle when catching falls ... you may well have serious issues once you start going to thin slick supple ropes at the bottom of the recommended range, i once used the normal smart on a ~9mm rope that fcuker wouldnt lock at all ... not to mention catching high factor falls where the braking power of the smart is LESS than the ATC guide (see the graph i posed last page) as i said ... yes this anonymous breeder of bears is telling MP that the method shown by mammut is not very good ... folks have been dropped using that method ... brake with the smart just like an ATC and it will solve the issue, that is hand fully on the rope downwards Chad Namolik wrote:Is paying out rope hard with this device? Is there anyone out there that doesn't like this device? Ive never used it but I was belayed by someone recently who used it and I was short roped like a mofo every time on lead. Even after telling him not to short rope me, it still happened. Just looked like he was struggling to feed rope out every time I clipped a piece. I don't think I'll ever use it or buy it but I'm curious about climbing with people using this on me in the future. What's up with this thing and what should I look for to get a nice smooth belay?if the belayer is competent and well experience lead belaying with the smart, if they are using a supple not overly thick rope, and if they are using the proper biner ... the smart is as smooth to lead belay with as the grigri if the above are not true then feeding can be a biatch ;) |
 This was designed specifically for the Smart. It fixes the rotation issue. Sure it's expensive, but a person's life is probably worth the $15... |
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Old post, |
Goofy JungleMan wrote: Old post, I have used the larger alpine smart with half ropes once, although I honestly don't remember the diameter of them. Didn't have issues with the ropes folding over each other. On rappel, it would not fully lock up even on a double strand rappel. Instead it would slowly ooze through the rope like it normally does with a single strand rappel. I have also my old 9.8mm fatty rope with the skinny rope version, and it was sometime a PITA. If my belaying technique was the slightest bit sloppy at all then it would lock up and I'd have to use the thumb grab. Lowering could be a little bit jumpy sometimes but not too bad if the rope wasn't twisted or tangled at all.On a long double strand rappel sometimes my hand would get tired from pushing the lever up with more than usual force. On single strand, though, it would no longer ooze like it would on skinnier diameter ropes. Keep in mind that all of this was used with a different biner than the mammut one. At the time, the biner mammut recommended for use with the smart was an I-beam carabiner which would make the device lock up much more frequently. Instead, I used a locker with a perfectly round cross-section. |
Goofy JungleMan wrote: Old post, Basically I had the Same experience as Eli. I used it to rappel with double ropes (maybe 8.5?) I had no issues with folding over, but it did not want to fully lock, it was much less control than desireable for a rappel. |
Goofy JungleMan wrote: Old post, I have both size Smarts and have used them with a bunch of different ropes. The diameter of ropes isn't consistent, a 9.2 from one brand will differ from another brand.Use the size range as recommended on the device. If you have a wide range of ropes you work with buy both size Smarts. |
