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would you pay to look epic?

Jason Kim · · Encinitas, CA · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 255

Drone issues aside, it would be very difficult to make this a profitable business, unless you're satisfied earning minimum wage (or less) for the time you'd have to put in. Pro wedding photographers charge a couple grand (or much more) for a half day of field work and all the editing involved, and that is less time consuming than what you're talking about. Travel expenses, damaged gear, support staff... You'd have to charge an arm and a leg and the climbing community isn't exactly known for dropping mega bucks on stuff like this. Look at how many people complain about the price of hiring a guide for a day, and that is peanuts compared to a hiring a pro photographer/videographer to follow you around on your adventures.

bking7 King · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 5

No.
Three reasons:
I'd rather spend my money on gas, gear, and beer.

As you yourself alluded to, I have no idea which days are going to be epic/photogenic. It could be whiteout conditions and I'll have my best day skiing ever, bluebird and I'm messing my line up.
The last try of the day on a route that happens to have draws turns into an inspired send. Or I go to send the project and it monsoons all day, or snows, or drop a piece of choss on my ankle...you get the idea.

Most important, no reel of film will ever capture nor recreate how I feel when things are amazing, the song stuck in my head, the sheer joy of my body actually doing what I told it to, the screaming-barfys, the utter terror that comes with things going so well that you're sure you'll blow it. My friend being laughed off the wall by some innocuous phrase that will never be as funny as right then.
A random picture in the moment will do as much, and I don't need a drone buzzing above me or some rando on a fixed line for that.

The preponderance of folks with go pros proves you have a market, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Also climbing go-pro footage is, as a rule, terrible.

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 81

I already look epic. But thanks anyway...

For a small fee, I'll stand-in to increase the epicness of anyone's movies.

Eric Chabot · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 45

You should try this at the Gunks. The wealthy gumbies will be so psyched

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

No, although it is a interesting idea.

Jon Sullivan · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 0

bking 7, Radical. Loved your breakdown. Your ending statement regarding Go Pros had me laughing. It's true, go pro climb footage from pov can never and will never be able to be, good. Thanks for that. As far as the just because you can doesn't mean you should remark, capitalism. I am appreciating the responses from everyone regarding general LNT. I completely understand how this could be pretty shitty to deal with when you're trying to escape everyone's nonsense in the first place.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

I have to vote yes, just to see so many whiny old crotchety trads losing their shit over filming at the crag would be worth every penny. Last year I counted 80 days climbing outside and two months sleeping on the ground. I saw four professional film crews using three drones in two different countries, and, ya know what, it wasn't the end of the world. Surprising huh?

Interesting though:

Those who grew up and live in the Nature seem to view the topic a bit different than those who think the nature is a refuge from their catastrophic personal choices.

Fucking funny city folk I say.

Chris Hill · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 0

Jon - I think this idea will make you rich, because there are so many vain, shallow douchebags out there that shell out big bucks for something like this. Good luck.

Nathan Self · · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 90

Regarding capitalism, I think you'll do best by marketing to small groups--especially ones that include novice and 1-time climbers. Families with kids could be a staple. Also kid groups: scouts, churches.

Why groups?
Everyone pays a little, and everyone gets some camera time and the overall group memory.
If the product is good, each group member will show several people and you'll get referral business.

Drones are banned in some places, so be informed.

I don't think a lot of experienced climbers will be interested. But you really only need a few heroes a month if you price it right..

This kind of thing might not be well received by other climbers in the area, but I'm sure you're quite considerate.

Finally, good luck.

Possible future: "Let's go to the trailhead kiosk and pick out some gnarly pics!" (Ick)

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60

I personally wouldn't hire anyone else to film me any time soon. If I were doing the first 5.13 in the Boulder area or a .14 project I MIGHT consider it. I also think that mountain project may not be the best place to ask, since a majority of the members aren't your demographic. Ask on 8a.nu.

I once looked into getting a drone for outdoors things and found that it usually isn't a good idea from a business perspective. The batteries lasted an hour at most. That was a small, efficient drone that couldn't carry a go-pro. So you'd have to have maybe 20 batteries to last an entire day. Plus the drone, the remote, and anything else you'd need to join in the activity of the day.

All the drones I've seen in person have been fairly frail things. It would be like bringing a porcelain doll on a hike. And you'd have to hear the propellers whine all day. That whine really gets to you after a while. And if its far enough away to not hear it, you have the chance of losing radio contact or not being able to identify any potential issues that have early warning signs. Like a prop motor failing can cause the drone to spin like a top until it starts doing somersaults onto to the only boulder in a grassy meadow.

If it were a truly lucrative idea, someone else would have capitalized on it. I saw a huge increase in drone videos of climbers earlier in this year. Then after a couple of months they ALL disappeared. There are pro climber photographers that have drones, and they use them for other photography projects. You should ask yourself why they don't use them for climbing.

All of my information on drones is probably significantly outdated. But, I wouldn't imagine by much.

ANGUS WIESSNER · · Denver Colorad · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,613

Shit I just bolted some new routes and would love to have some footage off me and friends climbing on them with a drone. I'll pay you to come out with me one day and get a short film going.

My budy just made a great movie with his drone from different cool places from climbing canyoneering and the beach it's pretty cool especially the shots of him flying it down the Zion narrows and subway in Zion before they banned them from the park.

bking7 King · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 5

I respect the capitalism, and I'm less against this on the LNT front than others. Granted I'm not into a drone or fixed ropes hanging off my favorite crag so some narcissist can pump the ego, but all the power to you for bleeding that b@stard.
I like the targetting of groups idea. The folks who have an issue with drones, ropes, etc generally go out of their way to avoid the wall being gangbanged by churchies, I know I do.

Other reasons, chances are if a stranger is filming me, I'll subconciously restrain myself, at the expense of that exact thing you wanted to capture.
Most everything out of my group's mouth is past R rated, this feeds into the above, but I'd rather be filmed by someone with whom I have more than a casual relationship with.

To clarify, go pros have utility, some great skiing, skydiving, straight adrenaline junky footage, but in general it caters to, and your business will cater to, that sub human population that reveres the selfie and takes pictures of their food. I don't begrudge you the chance to profit, just as Instagram and facebook do, I'm just a bit sad that such an opportunity exists.

Limpingcrab DJ · · Middle of CA · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,055

Two things:

1. Most of the people who would say "yes" will not do so on here so your sample is biased. It will make people feel cool to say they're too cool to try to look cool so they'll happily say "no."

2. People have been making money doing just that for a while now. Go it, then you'll know if the idea will work.

Marathon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 275
limpingcrab wrote:Two things: 1. It will make people feel cool to say they're too cool to try to look cool so they'll happily say "no." 2.

So what your saying is climbers try hard to look cool, but at the same time try to act like there not trying at all.?
RockinOut · · NY, NY · Joined May 2010 · Points: 100
Eliot Augusto wrote:I once looked into getting a drone for outdoors things and found that it usually isn't a good idea from a business perspective. The batteries lasted an hour at most. That was a small, efficient drone that couldn't carry a go-pro. So you'd have to have maybe 20 batteries to last an entire day. Plus the drone, the remote, and anything else you'd need to join in the activity of the day. All the drones I've seen in person have been fairly frail things. It would be like bringing a porcelain doll on a hike.
A LOT has changed in the past year, year and a half. How long ago were you looking at drones? I've seen drones bounce off trees and branches and still be operational…..hardly as frail as you say. The high end models will last easily over an hour with a go pro. You mustn't been looking at them when they first came out a number of years ago.
Limpingcrab DJ · · Middle of CA · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,055
Grover wrote: So what your saying is climbers try hard to look cool, but at the same time try to act like there not trying at all.?
You got it. Not me though, I try hard to look cool and leave it at that. PS, I still need a bolt count/topo for Modern Guilt for SEKIclimbing.com since you moved the first two pitches. Also, I think I found a way around the 5.12 pitch for us softies. Also #2, I miss you. Tehipite.
Rui Ferreira · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 903

I recently met a climber from Spain that is using his drone for filming climbers (some professional) and skiers (professionals) for promotional/commercial purposes either as part of sponsor videos or for different organizations (ski mountaineering teams, tourism offices, etc.). There are many hours of editing work to get to the final product so keep that in mind if you venture into this business.

Check out the Edu Marin episodes (climbing in the Dolomites) on Epic TV, or any of the Mallorca climbing videos online to see his work.

and here is a link to his vimeo page

vimeo.com/marcsubirana/vide…

Jon Sullivan · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 0

Thanks everyone. I will most likely be going through with the idea only because its just too easy. not to mention Id rather be having from a fixed rope or staring at a screen (for the drone) outside than sitting at a desk any day. Rest assured to you some that my first and most important goal is to not disrupt others. I would hate it also. Ive been on both ends. Guiding groups when other climbers don't seem to want you there and climbing on my own next to some top roper bitching about how hard it is to finish the route. As for getting rich, yeah I just might. This roles into many other markets like off roading, canyoneering, mountain biking, atv shenanigans etc.

Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

That’s the spirit! It’s just too easy to make money filming pathetic people doing nothing impressive so they can continue to miss out on their life by focusing on anything but the present moment. What a special purpose you are serving here on planet Earth. Nothing epic about any of it, just a lame way to make money.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60
RockinOut wrote: A LOT has changed in the past year, year and a half. How long ago were you looking at drones? I've seen drones bounce off trees and branches and still be operational…..hardly as frail as you say. The high end models will last easily over an hour with a go pro. You mustn't been looking at them when they first came out a number of years ago.
About 2 years ago. I was in Austin at a tech convention and several companies had their quad copters. One of them broke during the demo on a "normal" landing. The strut broke. Another looked bomb proof, but could run for like 20 minutes. The really cool one I saw ran about 45 minutes, and had this 3d waypoint system. It would follow a custom curve unless certain conditions were met, like loss of radio contact or low battery. It would attempt to navigate to the take-off location. I designed an infrared LED system that could be attached to an object so that the drone would follow it and keep the same orientation to the object.

Naturally technology gets better quickly, but there have been few advancements in energy storage over the past few years. So the drones might be operating at 200% of their original ability, reducing support costs by the same. 10 batteries for 10 hours of drone footage doesn't sound to appealing. Those things are heavy.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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