Top Rope Solo Set Up

They recommend it because it works reasonably well and many people already have ascenders and don't want to buy a pair of Trax. Aside from the bulk, it works ok. A basic or Croll works ok too without the size of a full ascender.

kong duck rope clamp

no teeth and no hassles with cables or cords like I get with my microcender.

karstsports.com/kodurocl.ht…

ECTradClimber wrote:i like to TR solo on two lines, usually one rope bunny ear'ed in the middle. I put a micro trax on one line and tie it off to high to a sling around my chest (so it holds it up and I'm not falling onto with much slack) and i use a tango cinch on the other strand. the cinch feeds rope very well and when i get to the top all i have to do is take off the micro and rap on the cinch, so your change over is kindof idiot proof and very efficient.

Would this method work well with a GriGri? Has anyone tried that? If the second strand is weighted, would the Gri feed well without having to pull out the slack?

You guys are all great, thanks for the input!

Prametheus wrote: Would this method work well with a GriGri? Has anyone tried that? If the second strand is weighted, would the Gri feed well without having to pull out the slack? You guys are all great, thanks for the input!

Define "well". Yes. No.

Ive done it on a regular gri, but it kinda sucks cause you have to help it along and depending on your rope that could basically mean pulling it though. I tried it with a modified gri (with the back plate cut) and it worked slightly better. You can buy a cinch pretty cheaply and there are other auto lockers which feed more freely then a gri out there too, but i just haven't used them.

As for now, after playing with different systems from knots to 2 ascenders on 1 rope to 2 assenders on 2 ropes I am very happy with my set up. I feel that once your on your safe (as you never have a real change over) and the ascent to rap is efficient.

my advice: stick to sport climbing brah

:'p

i use a mini-trax on one line with overhands tied below the device whenever i have a stance or, if it's a sport route, at every bolt. i also have completely unused strand (fig 8 on bight at middle of rope to create 2 strands) makes for an easier transition to rappel and also if you have to unweight your device. i also make sure i have enough slings and cord to rig prussics with foot loops if need be. i have a backpack hanging on the rope off the ground (it has at least a water bottle if not more stuff in it for weight) and the weight makes the mini-trax feed seamless. in hindsight, though, i would have bought a microscender rather than mini trax if i had know about it at the time because the microscender seems like it is easier to unweight with the pin removal and overall it seems the device was designed specifically for rope soloing.

+1 for Camp Lift

ECTradClimber wrote:i like to TR solo on two lines, usually one rope bunny ear'ed in the middle. I put a micro trax on one line and tie it off to high to a sling around my chest (so it holds it up and I'm not falling onto with much slack) and i use a tango cinch on the other strand. the cinch feeds rope very well and when i get to the top all i have to do is take off the micro and rap on the cinch, so your change over is kindof idiot proof and very efficient.

I use a Cinch as well, mostly because I got one for super cheap at a gear swap. I pair this with a Wild Country Ropeman 1 attached to a webbing chest harness. Keep me upright, feeds smoothly, and easy to setup for a rappel back down. Super simple and pretty much bombproof. I haven't used the setup on any truly overhanging routes, but on dead vertical, slab, and through small roofs it has been flawless.

I use a single static line weighted with a Nalgene or pack at the bottom. I understand the reason for a two strand technique, but consider it overkill, YMMV.

Eldo Love wrote:I use a CAMP Lift for ice rope solo. I was borrowing an USHBA for a couple of years and recently had to give it back (out of production). The Lift is very similar. I have used the Lift a couple times now and feel very safe. With that said check out THIS bad boy, the CAMP GOBLIN,

Eldo,

All know the ice climbers' axiom is "never fall ice climbing". Studies have shown that a 3-4 foot fall on ice has a greater than 75% chance of injury, mostly ankles (sprains or breaks) -- crampons catch. Of course rock climbers can take a 3 ft fall and be severely injured but it's not as "near guaranteed" an injury as falling on ice.

I'm hesitant to say that pure (w/o rope) ice soloists do so at or near their full-on lead capabilities because I know it's not entirely representative of ice soloists (many will follow harder stuff than they would lead, just as in rock climbing, however, the chances of injury falling on ice is not debatable). Thus, the argument that many experienced, "managed risk" ice climbers will use is that leading ice (as part of a rope team) is akin to soloing anyway. (I don't entirely agree with the statement but you get the drift).

That said, I'm personally less interested in protecting a solo ice climb that is beyond my capabilities (& ice conditions); I'll solo it and if I can't, I won't. HOWEVER, I'm more academically interested in you saying that you like the CAMP Lift for ice soloing. You also champion the Goblin (but do not specifically say you use it for ice; as a practical matter, this seems unwieldy a best -- one isn't going to place their hand on top of the device simply because they will have an ice tool to contend with (leashed or leash less), among other things.

My question boils down to this: does your Lift ice up? Given the time it takes to screw around with two ropes (that may be or are getting icy) as well as tying knots, that's plenty of time for living in the ice time (device). Second: have you ever taken an unintentional fall -- let's say "slip" -- say 2-3 feet on ice before your device stopped you and if so, was it a good time or not? Third (I ask this on the part of others who may wonder - I have antifreeze in my circulatory system so not a problem for me): do you get cold, rather, is there enough start, stop, start, stop such that it would turn off others who would not like that situation or are you working enough that cold (in your case) is not a problem?

My comments are not critical, rather, curious. Most uber ice climbers I know would not consider soloing w/a rope setup because they are either confident enough in their abilities to discard the idea of soloing a rope but moreover, soloing ice, esp. ice that requires unflappable concentration and skill, would arguably be more dangerous than using a rope because it would affect said concentration & dial-in (IMO), pumped out, etc. Best to cruise it and keep going.

So, do you think your setup is such that it is less distracting than it seems to be (screwing with the rope, device icing up ??), etc? You seem to have figured it out and think it's worth the hassle?

Thanks in advance,

Warbonnet

Warbonnet,

Good read man, what you have said holds a lot of truth.

Have you ever taken an unintentional fall?

Ill start off with an experience I had four seasons ago when I was really getting into ice. I was rather inexperienced with the whole concept of soloing ice. I was happy go lucky, in other words stupid. I had a rope dropped on a fall and was using the USHBA ("same" as the Lift). Thrashing up the formation my tools popped and I took a maximum 1 foot slouch (wouldn't really even call it a fall). Turns out this was one of the best things that has happened to me. "Wow, that happened so fast. WTF happened? Slow down. God damn."

Does your Lift ice up?

Given the conditions in Colorado the past couple years I have to laugh at the concept of my device icing up... The devise works as a cam pinching the rope. It takes very little tension for the devise to lock, I would say just a couple pounds, I can get the devise to lock by just pulling down with my arm with no force. If the rope was iced it seams like it would still pinch the rope. I have no experience with the devise itself icing up. Sorry.

Lift

Do you get cold?

Like I said CO winters have been balmy at worst. However this set up is extremely fast.

I tie my rope around a tree (or anchor) leave one strand at the top and drop the other (so just one strand of rope is hanging). Rappel and hang a water bottle off the end a foot or two above the ground. Place the rope through the Lift and attach devise onto my belay loop using a regular locking biner. Climb to the top. Repeat. The rope flows through the devise smoothly, there is no need to pull out slack or mess with anything.

There is a huge difference between soloing and rope soloing to me. If I'm feeling really good and am in the mood for a religious experience I will solo (The Dali Lama ain't got shit on ice soloing). If I cant find a partner and start having an anxiety attack I will set out on a rope solo mission. It is an excellent way to train as well. I can get in 5 pitches in an hour or so. Impossible if you have a partner (unless that partner is Ueli Steck). I can also push myself with the rope, training my mind as well as my wimpy muscles. Its interesting to me how I forget about the rope being there, but it is, that's my back up I guess.

If you are using the rope solo devise as a partner then I would have to say just using the Lift my not be the way to go.

The CAMP Goblin

I have spoken with someone who I hold very high in regards to climbing safety. He uses the Goblin for rope solo and loves it. And then I spewed it.. I was excited and that was wrong. I just thought that for someone looking into possibilities that this was something to consider.

I hope this is somewhat helpful. Thank you for following rule #1.

Cheers!

Seems like most people use the microcender as a backup to the microtrax, is this just because it's what petzl shows in their info graphic? Any downside to using the microcender or camp lift on the climbing strand with an ascender on the backup strand? I'll have a gri for lowering. I'd like to use the same setup for ice.

The only downside to the microcender is that you have to pull the lever down in order for it to engage. If the device above it fails and pushes down on the top of a microcender, it won't engage. I use mine alone on the second strand for that reason. I've found that using a chest rig or neck strap of elastic to hold a microcender up causes the cam to pinch a bit and it doesn't feed well in that orientation, but if I trail it on a short sling in feeds like a breeze. Because of those two issues I wouldn't recommend one if you plan on solo tr'ing with two devices on a single strand but for two strands it works great, and acts like a shunt while rapping the other line.

To those using the CAMP Lift... CAMP seems to specifically say that it is not for ascending or self belay. On the other hand the Microtrax has this proven record so to speak. I like the idea of the Lift cause its cheap and doesn't have teeth, but I want to be cautious about trusting my life to this device. Where can I get more info to help me make my decision and feel comfortable with buying a Lift?

Sorry to not trust your word on the the interweb forums but I would just like to see some video or non-forum support for using these.

FrankPS wrote:There have been so many threads on this subject already. I guess one more can't hurt.

+1

The lift is definitely for ascending, If you go to their website the product is listed as the camp lift ascender

Sandannham, there was a thread awhile back on using ushbahs and lifts for adjustable daisys. Someone referenced a study that suggested that they damage the rope under lower loads than a regular toothed ascender. Keep in mind that this is secondhand hearsay. But if you look up "Kate's adjustable daisy" or "ushba adjustable daisy" and dig around a bit you can probably find the link. I'm thinking it was on supertopo. Apologies in advance if I'm sending you on a goose chase, it was a while ago...

The ushba cuts the rope at ~6 KN on drop tests ... Ill post the reference once im back home from climbing later in the week

Theres been a few ushba (and the grand wall copy) failures in squamish where the spring broke ... And other fun troubles up here

I might just do a full post on TR soloing once i finish breeding my bears ... I breed them on TR solo

Durty bears

;)

bearbreeder wrote:http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/General-principles-for-solo-climbing-with-a-fixed-belay-rope

This is exactly the answer. Plus read all the links on the right sidebar about self-belay. Including the one "to read..." and the appendixes.

for Warbonnet- I use this system on ice a lot so I can get silly pumped or experiment with technique (like use one tool or no swinging). No way I would do that if I were soloing.

Just started using a microtraxion backed up with a 30 year old jumar. Haven't died yet, will keep you posted.