Long day, lots of gear, how do you pack?

My partner and I recently did Touchstone in Zion in a day. We decided not to haul, instead we brought a 25L daypack full of water, food and 2 puffies. This meant that while following the free pitches, the second was carrying a backpack and the unneeded pieces of the rack.

It was pretty miserable following.

If we hauled with one of those small (30-40L) haul bags, it seems like it would have been less work. The load would be smaller, so you could quickly 1:1 haul it. But all you Internet folks seems to be very passionate about not hauling to go fast.

So my question is: is there a better system, or should we just harden the fuck up?

I've never climbed Touchstone, so my opinion is probably worth less than Elena's furry friend. But I've gleaned a few pointers over the years that might help.

Difficult climbing with weight on your back sucks. Haul weight through your belay loop (while climbing) if absolutely necessary.

Otherwise, have leader start to haul at end of his pitches. It's usually not a problem to belay second (with an auto-block device) and haul gear. Keep bags above the second (just like you keep your ropes below you while rappelling). Haul periodically (during second's rests) to keep the system going.

Also, it never hurts to harden the fuck up.
youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYR…

I'm a fan of short hauling group gear with a tag line (i.e. hand-over-hand hauling). But Touchstone does not require a tag line, as you know, and bringing it could seem like a waste. This is my preferred method for longer rock or steep alpine rock routes. But, many people would advocate not to haul on Touchstone so you had better harden the fuck up for the responses that will ensue.

Less water, less food, no puffies.

8 pitches shouldn't require the 2nd to carry aany more weight than the lead rack. Just pack it on your back.

Based on long days in The Winds last year (10-12 pitches), here's my experience:

Small day packs (13L). Wear it to carry your own stuff. I go through 3L of water in a day like that, so it's unreasonable to ask my second to carry that much water.

For chimneys, drag the bag with a medium to long length runner through the haul loop. Make sure you don't have anything that'll fall out if it tips.

Only for the most precarious situations, have your second carry your gear.

This keeps things light and fast, but only works as long as you're very comfortable in the terrain you're leading. Once you get to your limit, this whole system falls apart.

Also, keep your approach shoes on a locking biner!

After climbing a 1800 ft route in the Black Canyon that had probably 1100 ft of offwidths, I decided that I'd never, ever, ever, ever climb with a pack again.

If you want a jacket, tie it around your waist.
If you want water, clip a bottle to your harness.
Stuff a couple of powerbars in your pockets if you're gonna get hungry....

I was at the black a few years ago with a buddy and he started organizing the pack and wanted to know what I wanted to put in it. He was shocked when I said, "Nothing, and I'm not carrying your pack while you're leading."

But by the time we summited, he agreed with me... fuck a pack on a day climb.

Each climber carries their own crap. It's too easy to bring extraneous nonsense if you know your second will carry it in a pack. Bring only what you can carry yourself while on lead.

Food (Gu and bars) in pockets.

Headlamp on helmet or in pocket.

Water in a bare bones camelback or in crushable plastic bottles clipped to your harness. jettison bottles as you climb, Twight style ;p

Lightweight puffy packs into own pocket and clips to harness.

You can wear climbing shoes on Touchstone descent. On other climbs if you have to hike down go with barefoot runners (like Merrel Glove) clipped to harness with a locker as mentioned above.

I NEVER hang shit off my harness like shoes or water..NEVER. it's a pain in the ass..cut down, cut down
Tiny day pack with essentials..bring it upon the tag line..shouldn't be more than 1-12 lbs
You did ask about racking...a gear sling ! lots of free biners and few quick draws..tons of wires..leapfrog cams on easy aid

john strand wrote:I NEVER hang shit off my harness like shoes or water..NEVER. it's a pain in the ass..cut down, cut down Tiny day pack with essentials..bring it upon the tag line..shouldn't be more than 1-12 lbs You did ask about racking...a gear sling ! lots of free biners and few quick draws..tons of wires..leapfrog cams on easy aid

Agreed. Although a pack and a chimney don't go well together, I always wear a small pack when climbing multipitch. I don't like the extra crap dangling from my harness.

It's really just a matter of personal preference whether you carry a small pack or clip everything to your harness. Neither is right or wrong.

A backpack that a hiker would have is all I take on a day climb. 2 nalgenes of water. a couple of snacks/lunch. gloves and hat. headlamp. and the smallest size of jacket(usually a fleece or hoodie) I could get away with spending the night where I'm at. Gear and a rope. And my car keys.

Most climbs I go on that I would climb with a pack usually involve a stupid amount of hiking, usually through talus, to get back to the base. So I usually only bring a pack on a climb when there is an hour+ walk back to the base.

You can often bring the comforts of home (extra clothes, water, music, tight shoes) and haul, without needing a haul line. That's what I would have done on Touchstone, since all the non aid pitches are under 1/2 rope length and the route is straight up and down.

Lead a pitch like normal, and clip into the belay with a sling.

Untie and lower your end down to the prior belay and haul up the pack while the second climbs the pitch without the pack on.

On easier pitches, just follow with the pack.

Depends on a route. In general I prefer to use a tag line, a Micro Traxion, and a 40L haul pack. It also provides us an easy retreat option. But for some routes (lot of chimneys, traversing pitches, etc) sometimes it is better to pack light and suffer a bit while seconding.