Cow Hitch, Clove Hitch, or Neither?

Hi All- I'm hiking Half Dome with cables down next month, and will be using a Prusik knot to tie into the metal cable as I ascend. My 7mm looped rope will be held together with a Double Fisherman's knot. So far so good...

My question is on the harness side. When I attach this rope to the screwgate carabiner hanging from my belay loop, should I simply clip the rope onto the carabiner and call it a day? Or should I cow hitch or clove hitch onto the carabiner?

Thanks in advance to any responses!

put a figure 8 on a bight and clip to that.

I'm trying to picture your proposed setup. It sounds like you could potentially fall quite a ways until the biner hits some cable support. At that point you have a large fall factor (i.e. high loads) and it hits your 7mm loop of fairly static accessory cord. Does that sound like I've described it correctly? And do you think that 7mm cord is going to handle a load that is potentially much higher than you could ever put on a climbing rope> (If yes, get a proper via ferrata lanyard.)

From my experience on half dome, there was no need to prussic the cable. In fact it would be a major pain. You'd be undoing and redoing the prussic at each post and there are many of them. Bring a pair of leather work gloves and hold on to the cable.

If you're still committed to the prussic just clip the other side of the cord to the belay loop on your harness with a biner. You may want two such rigs do you aren't unsecured at any point while passing the posts.

Sounds to me like the 7mm is going to be prussik wrapped around the cable. He was just asking how then to attach that loop to his harness. That to me sounds like a classic figure 8 on a bight, clipped to a locker.

The cables won't be up will they ?

Your in more of a 4th class rock climbing situation the and a rope would be better..especially coming down

There is no need for any knot at the carabiner end. Just clip the loop.
If the cable is down this point is kind of moot.

All of these proposals I hear about over the years to prussic into the down (or up for that matter)cables are just ridiculous. Especially going up! The fact is that it just isn't sketchy enough to warrant the effort. And if it is for you, just break out a rope and simulclimb and clip into the cables/eyebolts for pro, or hell, just belay! The thought of tying and re-tying a hitch at every junction on a heavy cable lying on the ground just sounds absurd. I'm willing to bet that most people could easily simul-climb up and rap down faster than all these proposed prussic shenanigans. If you're by yourself, you could use two tails made from dynamic rope with a large locker on each end (think via-ferrata type lanyards). Still kind of silly IMO, but much better than futzing around with prussics.

sarcasm wrote:put a figure 8 on a bight and clip to that.

sarcasm wrote:Sounds to me like the 7mm is going to be prussik wrapped around the cable. He was just asking how then to attach that loop to his harness. That to me sounds like a classic figure 8 on a bight, clipped to a locker.

Yes, you are correct in that the Prusik is going to be wrapped around the cable...thanks for helping to further clarify for folks.

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Gunkiemike wrote:I'm trying to picture your proposed setup. It sounds like you could potentially fall quite a ways until the biner hits some cable support. Does that sound like I've described it correctly?

No, not correct. See above. The carabiner isn't going onto the metal cable, the carabiner is being attached to my harness. The Prusik knot is being affixed to the metal cable, hence it will grip and prevent me from falling a distance.

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rocknice2 wrote:From my experience on half dome, there was no need to prussic the cable. In fact it would be a major pain. You'd be undoing and redoing the prussic at each post and there are many of them

Thanks for the response, but I stated that the cables will be *down*, thus there will be no posts deal with.

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john strand wrote:The cables won't be up will they ? Your in more of a 4th class rock climbing situation the and a rope would be better..especially coming down

I should clarify that when the cables are "down", they're not actually removed. They are just laying flat against the granite, versus being held up a few feet with metal posts. So, I'll actually have a cable to Prusik into.

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rocknice2 wrote:There is no need for any knot at the carabiner end. Just clip the loop. If the cable is down this point is kind of moot.

Thanks for the reply. And to reiterate as stated above, when the cables are "down", they're not actually removed. They are just laying flat against the granite, versus being held up a few feet with metal posts.

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csproul wrote:All of these proposals I hear about over the years to prussic into the down (or up for that matter)cables are just ridiculous. Especially going up! The fact is that it just isn't sketchy enough to warrant the effort. And if it is for you, just break out a rope and simulclimb and clip into the cables/eyebolts for pro, or hell, just belay! The thought of tying and re-tying a hitch at every junction on a heavy cable lying on the ground just sounds absurd. I'm willing to bet that most people could easily simul-climb up and rap down faster than all these proposed prussic shenanigans. If you're by yourself, you could use two tails made from dynamic rope with a large locker on each end (think via-ferrata type lanyards). Still kind of silly IMO, but much better than futzing around with prussics.

I would wholeheartedly agree with you that clipping or Prusik-ing into the cables while they're up is extremely unnecessary. However, I don't see anything wrong whatsoever with someone going up "cables down" for the first time, to take a little extra precaution. I get the rant...I know it's annoying to you to encounter people like that. But, if I feel it's not needed while I'm there, guess what...I'll not use it.

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Bottom line is, I have a loop of rope and I just needed to know how to clip it into my carabiner: Clove Hitch, Cow Hitch, or just clip it in the biner with no loop.

So far I'm hearing just clip it in, and also another stating to figure 8 on a bight.

Thanks again to everyone who responded :)

I just did this recently... used an auto block and clipped it straight into the carabiner. The cables are still attached to the ground every so often, so it would be nice to have two pieces of cord to bypass those sections but not necessary.

No knot, just clip the loop.

Only reason to tie a knot in a closed loop is to shorten it.

Consider a Bachmann over a Prusik as they slide easier. May cause undue wear on your biner over a metal cable though.

Bryan Zavestoski wrote:I just did this recently... used an auto block and clipped it straight into the carabiner. The cables are still attached to the ground every so often, so it would be nice to have two pieces of cord to bypass those sections but not necessary.

Awesome, thanks for the advice. Yeah, I'll probably just stick with one unit.

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Beean wrote:No knot, just clip the loop. Only reason to tie a knot in a closed loop is to shorten it. Consider a Bachmann over a Prusik as they slide easier. May cause undue wear on your biner over a metal cable though.

I was actually debating a Bachmann versus a Prusik. But because it's a metal cable, was thinking the Prusik would grip better in the event of a fall (the whole metal on metal thing probably wouldn't be too ideal. A Klemheist however...that might be a viable alternative.

there been deaths and accident on the half dome cables ...

the cables can be sketchy when down especially if it starts drizzling ...

hikehalfdome.com/accidents/

bring gloves ... if you do use a lanyard to clip onto the cables, a dynamic one made out of rope might be advisable

use some google translate-fu and read this on franz bachmann via ferrata friction knots ...

eneafiorentini.it/icorsroc/…

but im going to be blunt here ... this is not beginner rope work

you are trusting your life to a friction knot on a metal cable with possible serious fall factors

i recommend you get someone to show you via ferrata technical skills ... not learn it off da intrawebz

Matthew Piazza wrote: I was actually debating a Bachmann versus a Prusik. But because it's a metal cable, was thinking the Prusik would grip better in the event of a fall (the whole metal on metal thing probably wouldn't be too ideal. A Klemheist however...that might be a viable alternative.

Just add more wraps. I suppose you should just try 3 or 4 different friction knots when you get there to see what holds. But like bearbreeder says, it's not beginner rope work. Those cables may not be kind to your nylon slings or cord, just something to be aware of.