Good twin ropes for multipitch climbs

For the longest time I have been doing the 9.7mm lead rope, 6mm tag line thing. I only had the tag line get stuck once on Cloud Tower, so it's worked fairly well so far. However, I have been considering just going the way of twin ropes instead. My biggest complaint is that half ropes (and even twins) are heavy as hell. A set of 8.5mms are easily heavier than the heaviest 11mm rope, which is not so fun when trying to climb hard with 170' of rope out. So I figured go with twins to save weight. I like twins more than halves anyway. The problem is it seems most twins are orientated more for ice climbing, and none of them seem very durable or easy to hold onto. Any twins out there that actually hold up like workhorses and dont have that slippery one-over-one weaving pattern?

If I were buying a set of double/twins at the moment I'd personally probably look at the Maxim Unity 8mm or Beal Gully Unicore 7.3mm.

I do lots of multipitch lead rope-soloing and am on about my eighth Maxim Glider 9.9 for that purpose (paired with an Edelrid Eddy) and have been super happy with them, particularly their TPT twill weave sheath. I'm less familiar with the Beals, but have been meaning to give one of their Unicore ropes a whirl and I can't help but believe there is more than a bit of added comfort knowing the Unicore sheathing is part any sub-9 rope. It's also certified as both a twin and double rope which adds to the comfort (and as twins they come in at about the weight of a Mammut Supersafe 10.2).

I have the Sterling Fusion Photon 7.8's, 60m, using them for ice but they are awesome. Weighed them together and they are ~11 lbs. just a touch heavier than my Edwlrid 10.2 70m. They are really rugged ropes too. I would recommend them. Oh and they are rated as twin/half.

I've had my 7.8 monsters now for several years of regular use, at least once a month. The sheath has held up well even against the abrasive slabs in the SE. Combined, they weigh similar to one 9/10mm rope. I have even used these in RR. They do get blown around more in the desert, but that is the trade off. They are still supple after having caught some lead falls. I use the sbg 2 in the highest friction mode and gloves for rappel. I don't recommend trying to use a single line to rap or belay a 2nd. An extra locker also helps add friction if you are using a different device. I never thought they were slick, but they are stretchy, which is normal. On walkoff descents, I coil the ropes together as one backpack. It takes more time to flake out, but is cleaner to carry. Twins are a great choice for multi, and they don't have to be heavy to be safe.

Oh yea, should have added that we use the Edelrid Mirco Jul's. They are awesome.

I have been using the Fusion Photons for a while now and can't say enough good things about them. Light, durable and handle well. And I commonly have a second climb on one strand. It lets a party of 3 move almost as quickly as 2.
Also, I have not found the need for a special belay device.

kemple sr. wrote:I have been using the Fusion Photons for a while now and can't say enough good things about them. Light, durable and handle well. And I commonly have a second climb on one strand. It lets a party of 3 move almost as quickly as 2. Also, I have not found the need for a special belay device.

Have you caught any falls by your 2nd on a single strand?

Try a set of PMI Verglass. I've had very good luck with them.

Trango Amphibians 8.1 -certified as both twin and double. Amazing.

Andy Nelson wrote:...certified as both twin and double...

FWIW almost all twins these days are rated at both twins AND doubles.

A another new addition in the Beal rope line that could be worth considering...

Single, Half and Twin!

•Weight: 48 g/m
•Impact force: Single 7.4kN, Half 5.5kN, Twin 8.6kN
•UIAA falls: Single 5, Half 20, Twin 25
•UIAA Certified Water Repellent - Golden Dry
•CE and UIAA Certified Single- Half -Twin

Might be heavier then you are looking for, but pretty cool that it received certification as single line

Beal Opera

7.7 BlueWater Ice Floss

I've had several pairs of Mammut Twilights over the years, and always been very happy with them.

Thaddeus VanDenBerghe wrote:A another new addition in the Beal rope line that could be worth considering... Single, Half and Twin! •Weight: 48 g/m •Impact force: Single 7.4kN, Half 5.5kN, Twin 8.6kN •UIAA falls: Single 5, Half 20, Twin 25 •UIAA Certified Water Repellent - Golden Dry •CE and UIAA Certified Single- Half -Twin Might be heavier then you are looking for, but pretty cool that it received certification as single line

This is not directed at you Thad, but that is a f*cking ridiculously priced rope. $300 per rope? Are they out of their minds? That equates to $600 plus tax for a double/twin setup (70m). I cannot fathom how or why that rope is worth that much change. Because I can use it as a single rope? Really? Aside from perhaps some crazy alpine situations, I can't understand this. Just go with one of the standards out there like Bluewater Ice Floss for $171 a piece (70m double dry) and spend the rest of your cash on a nest egg of sodas for after the climb.

For reference, I have climbed on Bluewater, Petzl, and Edelweiss setups (doubles though, not twins) and I keep coming back to BW because its the only setup that I end up retiring because of age instead of sheath issues or core sloppiness (though I hear good things about Mammut too).

While we are at it can we drift just a little. Every year I consider a double or twin setup for alpine when a double rope rappel is a requirement vs single plus tag. I know most of the pros and cons such as having something to lead on in case of a stuck rope and the wind and rope snags with skinny ropes, etc. And I would only do it if the total weight was less than single + tag. What I'm really interested in is how it feels on lead. I did one alpine last summer on twins and felt it was more difficult to make clips and rope drag was more than I would have had with a single. I know with doubles you can definitely reduce drag. But not sure I would use double technique much. Not to mention most double setups weigh as much as single plus tag. I'd love to hear from those that have made this transition, especially what you feel on the sharp end.

Hope you don't mind the drift 20kn. Seems fairly relevant and gives the thread a bump.

Greg D wrote:While we are at it can we drift just a little. Every year I consider a double or twin setup for alpine when a double rope rappel is a requirement vs single plus tag. I know most of the pros and cons such as having something to lead on in case of a stuck rope and the wind and rope snags with skinny ropes, etc. And I would only do it if the total weight was less than single + tag. What I'm really interested in is how it feels on lead. I did one alpine last summer on twins and felt it was more difficult to make clips and rope drag was more than I would have had with a single. I know with doubles you can definitely reduce drag. But not sure I would use double technique much. Not to mention most double setups weigh as much as single plus tag. I'd love to hear from those that have made this transition, especially what you feel on the sharp end. Hope you don't mind the drift 20kn. Seems fairly relevant and gives the thread a bump.

Hey Greg, I will take a (perhaps poor) stab at answering your questions.

For more than a decade I have used doubles for pretty much any multipitch climb that could potentially involve needing to bail where full length rappels are either mandatory (say a face climb with fixed anchors and no other chance of gear) or alpine climbing where full length raps mean I need to leave less gear. I gave the single and tag line a shot for a while a few years back, but in the end I found that climbing on doubles is not harder to deal with than a single plus tag (especially with practice) and the weight difference is really negligible. In fact, I actually find it easier because I don't need to haul two lines when I arrive at a belay (or alternatively carry the tag line in a pack....ugh). That is, I simply stack both ropes as a single at belays and I am good to go. On top of that, I guess my whiny self also feels warm inside about having two leads lines in the event that I am climbing over sharp edges etc. On top of that, I regularly take advantage of the 70m length of my ropes and between using alpine runners and double ropes, I can string out 230 feet of climbing and have virtually no rope drag at the end. This is not to say that I don't climb multipitch with a single line, but when I do, I ONLY have the single line...no tag. But this is a different circumstance than the times that I want two ropes for whatever reason.

Twins on the other hand are a bit lighter than doubles, but you lose the positive aspects that I like including reducing rope drag and having independent ropes in case of a sharp edge (I figure that if one rope cuts over an edge, than having two in the same spot may cut just as easily versus a double setup where the other rope is clipped to independent gear). Plus, I will admit that rapping on shoe string 7.7 mm twins over a sharp edge at a roof etc. has always given me the heeby jeebies.

Luv my 70m Sterling Fusion Photon 7.8's.

My partner caught a fall of mine on just one strand and he felt no slippage or inability to control the brake. He had a reverso. I have rapped on them many times with an ATC Guide. Didn't require a second biner, where as on most thin ropes a second biner in almost mandatory. I don't know why but these ropes behave like a much fatter pair. Can't speak for the longevity yet but they feel like they will last.

Most of the time I treat them as twins but if required I can split them up. They do weigh more than my single 9.5 but less than a single/tag combo. The extra weight doesn't really affect the climbing much but you can definitely feel the clips are heavier. Although if I clip each 7.8mm strand one at a time, even into the same biner, its a lot lighter than clipping a single 9.5mm rope. One option I use is to clip the yellow rope into overhead pro. Then as I pass the pro I waist clip the red rope.

It's really easy to keep rope drag at bay without the use of extra long slings. I don't hesitate to mix twin and double rope technique during a pitch. ** there is already a topic on this and it doesn't need to repeated here again **.

Generally I don't mix really hard and really long routes. Let's say I did, I would just belay closer to the hard parts, so I don't do the crux at the 50+ meter mark.

Mammut Serenity is the thinnest single line on the market and I have taken some good falls on these.

Mammut Serenity Rope

Derek Doucet wrote:I've had several pairs of Mammut Twilights over the years, and always been very happy with them.

Ditto that. My pair are going strong. I like 'em.

worleybird wrote:Mammut Serenity is the thinnest single line on the market and I have taken some good falls on these. Mammut Serenity Rope

I think the Beal Opera is currently the smallest single -- 8.5mm and 48g/m, compared to 51g/m for the Mammut Serenity and Edelrid Corbie.

J. Albers wrote: Hey Greg, I will take a (perhaps poor) stab at answering your questions. For more than a decade I have used doubles for pretty much any multipitch climb that could potentially involve needing to bail where full length rappels are either mandatory (say a face climb with fixed anchors and no other chance of gear) or alpine climbing where full length raps mean I need to leave less gear. I gave the single and tag line a shot for a while a few years back, but in the end I found that climbing on doubles is not harder to deal with than a single plus tag (especially with practice) and the weight difference is really negligible. In fact, I actually find it easier because I don't need to haul two lines when I arrive at a belay (or alternatively carry the tag line in a pack....ugh). That is, I simply stack both ropes as a single at belays and I am good to go. On top of that, I guess my whiny self also feels warm inside about having two leads lines in the event that I am climbing over sharp edges etc. On top of that, I regularly take advantage of the 70m length of my ropes and between using alpine runners and double ropes, I can string out 230 feet of climbing and have virtually no rope drag at the end. This is not to say that I don't climb multipitch with a single line, but when I do, I ONLY have the single line...no tag. But this is a different circumstance than the times that I want two ropes for whatever reason. Twins on the other hand are a bit lighter than doubles, but you lose the positive aspects that I like including reducing rope drag and having independent ropes in case of a sharp edge (I figure that if one rope cuts over an edge, than having two in the same spot may cut just as easily versus a double setup where the other rope is clipped to independent gear). Plus, I will admit that rapping on shoe string 7.7 mm twins over a sharp edge at a roof etc. has always given me the heeby jeebies.

Thanks J Albers. It seems that there are more advantages to doubles than twins, at least in alpine. Although the weight savings would be small if any compared to single plus tag. I just haven't been able to convince myself that is ok to whip in 8's. I'm not the lightest guy out there. Maybe I could go with something in the 7.9 to 8.1 range which would give some weight savings over single plus tag and use them as twins when I'm climbing near my limit and falls are likely and go to double technique when then climbing eases up. I know a lot of people like the Mammut Serenity which is 8.5 I believe. But, that would be heavier than my current single/tag setup.