Hiking Vs Mountaineering?! Mountaineering Vs. Ice Climbing?!

Hi there, I have a general interest in hiking and mountaineering. I've been trying to wrap my head around the proper terminology for what I do... and what I WANT to do. I live in the North east and I'm working on my winter 48 4000 footer list in the White mountains. A lot of the hikes in the whites can warrant the use of crampons and an ice ax. Some "mountaineering schools" take guided trips up Mount Washington on what I would consider a hiking trail (but they call it a mountaineering trip). I see people on trails rocking full mountaineering double boots, while others are wearing standard insulated hikers. I have friends who ice climb but don't ascend a mountain doing it.

This is all very confusing... when does Hiking become Mountaineering? When does Mountaineering become ice climbing?! It seems like there's no real defining line. The dictionaries definition of Mountaineering is "the sport of climbing mountains". I only hike to get to the summit of a mountain... does that make it mountaineering? Or does the use of technical ice tools, harness, rope, etc... make it mountaineering?

In the near future I'm hoping to sign up for a guided Rainier trip, is this mountaineering? or hiking?

I know the title doesn't matter all that much. I'd just like to know everyone's take on it. Someone clear this up for me! Thanks!

Sounds like what you do is mountaineering.

Here's my take, more or less: Hiking becomes mountaineering when climbing mountains using crampons and/or ice axe. Mountaineering doesn't become ice climbing, but may contain sections of ice climbing. Ice climbing probably requires two technical tools, but shorter or easier sections of ice may be climbed with a standard axe. Rainier is mountaineering.

You didn't mention alpine climbing, but this thread has some interesting thoughts on alpine climbing vs mountaineering.
mountainproject.com/v/diffe…

There are many shades of gray for sure, but it's kind of fun to think about.

Kevin K wrote:Sounds like what you do is mountaineering. Here's my take, more or less: Hiking becomes mountaineering when climbing mountains using crampons and/or ice axe. Mountaineering doesn't become ice climbing, but may contain sections of ice climbing. Ice climbing probably requires two technical tools, but shorter or easier sections of ice may be climbed with a standard axe. Rainer is mountaineering. You didn't mention alpine climbing, but this thread has some interesting thoughts on alpine climbing vs mountaineering. mountainproject.com/v/diffe… There are many shades of gray for sure, but it's kind of fun to think about.

+1 this

Also, don't try to define what you do as more than what it is. In Colorado people mention they "climbed" a 14er which actually all they did was a long hike on a Class 1 or 2 trail to a summit over 14,000 feet. I think one dividing line between hiking and mountaineering/climbing is when the use of protective equipment is required for the average person.

Alex Honnold - Extreme Hiker

Tom Sherman wrote:Alex Honnold - Extreme Hiker

Yes, there are outliers but I did mention for the average person.

I know, I was playing devil's advocate, to debunk your explanation, in trying to inexplicitly convey that these definitions are kind of boundary-less and its really futile trying to put a stamp on them.

Is someone a hiker until they fall over a cliff and the news call them a climber. Does wearing traction make you a mountaineer instead of hiker. If you scramble up the Trap Dike, which is it?

I think the only thing you're going to figure out, if you think about it hard enough, is why you're asking the question.

All good points. My only reason for trying to categorize my hobby is when I try to find others to join or bring along. Sometimes I'll invite people on a "hike" and it quickly becomes something that is over their abilities. Alternatively, I don't want to join a "mountaineering trip" only to find out I'm not qualified or have enough experience in certain areas.

Then there's gear. Recently I've been shopping around for boots. Do I need mountaineering boots or hiking boots? both seem to work to an extent, have their strengths and weaknesses for certain situations. Manufactures generalize the applications to "general mountaineering" or "ice climbing" ,"hiking" etc...

I suppose its all kind of silly, but there are SO many terms floating around I was just hoping to get others opinions on it.

Tom Sherman wrote:I think the only thing you're going to figure out, if you think about it hard enough, is why you're asking the question.

^ This is deep.

Dave Dillon wrote:All good points. My only reason for trying to categorize my hobby is when I try to find others to join or bring along. Sometimes I'll invite people on a "hike" and it quickly becomes something that is over their abilities. Alternatively, I don't want to join a "mountaineering trip" only to find out I'm not qualified or have enough experience in certain areas.

Like everyone else said, it depends. The same route can also be a hike in certain conditions or "mountaineering" in others.
To qualify as "mountaineering", the biggest factors in my mind are:
1. the amount of objective hazard and 2. technical skill needed

These factors usually come about due to snow and ice on the mountain: you have to worry about objective hazards like avalanches/whiteouts and need technical skills like cramponing/rope handling.

Of course, the goal has to be to climb a mountain. If you want to descend a canyon, that's canyoneering.

I and most people would consider Rainier mountaineering. Lion's Head is a bit of a gray area. It could be more on the mountaineering side of things depending on conditions. Most Mountaineers(tm) consider it more of a hike, but it's a great introduction to certain mountaineering skills, plus the local guides typically do more skills in one of the ravines, then summit via Lion's Head.

Dave Dillon wrote:Then there's gear. Recently I've been shopping around for boots. Do I need mountaineering boots or hiking boots? both seem to work to an extent, have their strengths and weaknesses for certain situations. Manufactures generalize the applications to "general mountaineering" or "ice climbing" ,"hiking" etc... I suppose its all kind of silly, but there are SO many terms floating around I was just hoping to get others opinions on it.

Gear-wise, I can hopefully give you a somewhat more satisfying answer. Hiking boots are pretty much that: for hiking. They usually have softer soles, roomy interiors, frequently are made of leather for durability, and have quite a bit of ankle support. Again it varies. A mountaineering boot usually has a stiffer outsole for climbing, and a heel welt to attach semi-automatic crampons. Other features vary by the type.

Mountaineering boot wise, almost every manufacturer has a similar line up of boots. In rough order of cost, incidentally:
1. A lightweight "3 season mountaineering boot". Typically very light, sticky rubber, not very insulated, no toe welt, somewhat rigid, and a fit closer to a climbing shoe. (example: LS Trango)
2. A 4 season "leather mountaineering boot". Warmer, roomier, very rigid, more durable, and a toe welt for automatic crampons. Designed for short mountaineering trips and ice climbing. (example: LS Nepal)
3. A 4 season "synthetic super gaiter boot". Warmer (sometimes), lighter, very rigid, toe welt included, but less durable than a leather boot. Designed for higher performance ice and mixed climbing. (example: LS Batura)
4. A 4 season "synthetic double boot". Much warmer than any single boot and very rigid. Toe welt and removable liner. Designed for mountaineering and ice climbing in the most extreme conditions. You lose weight and sensitivity for increased warmth. (example: LS Baruntse)
5. A "triple boot". These are for Everest climbers. Super clunky and expensive, but warm as hell. They don't really have a place outside the Himalaya and Antarctica. (example: LS Olympus Mons)

Some manufacturers also make double plastic boots, which are cheap, warm, and very rigid. Sometimes heavier, always clunkier. (example: Scarpa Inverno)

Gaiters. It's all about gaiters.

Here's a quote from a Messner interview:

"There are three elements of mountaineering—difficulty, danger, and exposure"

livemint.com/Leisure/bkivHA…

Vinzanto wrote:Here's a quote from a Messner interview: "There are three elements of mountaineering—difficulty, danger, and exposure" livemint.com/Leisure/bkivHA…

Thanks for sharing the link

It's a sliding scale. The better/stronger you get, the more routes slide into the hiking category. For instance, when I started climbing 5.14, I started "hiking" anything easier than 5.13.

Well... I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems to be making it up as I go. Good input and points! I wouldn't call a 5.13 a hike though!

To manage expectations of folks you're inviting along you can go beyond the "term".

When I invite friends hiking, I tell them how far away it is, how far/long of a hike, and an idea of the strenuousness (or gear considerations if any apply).

I also either know them well - or ask - what their ability is, we're talking kids, food, etc, whatever.