Scarpa Phantom Vs. Mont Blanc? Which is Warmer?

I'm in the market for a new climbing and winter hiking boot. I mainly Climb/Hike in the north east / white mountains. I currently have both the Scarpa Mont Blanc and Phantom Guides in my possession... with the intention to try out both and keep one.

From what the internet tells me... the phantom guide would be a warmer boot. But to me, both feel similarly warm in the simple testing I've been able to do (standing outside in the snow during a 0F night.) . I even called Scarpas customer service... and the rep told me both boots would be "pretty much the same" warmth wise.

I haven't been able to really put these boots through the ringer since I will be returning one, I don't want to destroy them!

I'm hoping someone here has first hand experience with either boot. Which one do you think is warmer? My feet don't run cold, but I've felt the wrath of frost nip on a -20F summit in New Hampshire wearing my 400 gram thinsulate boots.

Both boots fit well and feel comfortable... almost identical. So it really comes down to which boot is warmer and suitable for the environment I climb in. I'm also trying to keep in mind that down the road I may make an attempt at a taller mountain out west. I don't want to have to buy more boots! I typically wear OR croc gaiters that seem to help in the warmth department as well. They fit awkwardly on the Phantoms.

I have both. Technically, I have the Mont Blanc Pro, though I did have the regular Mont Blanc a few years ago before upgrading to the Phantom Guide.

The Phantom is a warmer boot mainly due to the built-in gaiter. The gaiter prevents snow and ice from accumulating on top of the boot (laces love trapping wet snow!) and the extra layer of fabric over top of everything creates an air pocket that stays quite warm.

Gaiters are not designed to be used with boots that have a built-in gaiter, so if you really insist on using gaiters the Phantom may not be for you.

Finally, you mention hiking a lot and this is where the Mont Blanc Pro (NOT the regular Mont Blanc) shines. The last is incredibly comfortable for walking in. I realize this throws another boot into the mix but from the sounds of it, the MB Pro might fit your needs ideally.

RafalA wrote:I have both. Technically, I have the Mont Blanc Pro, though I did have the regular Mont Blanc a few years ago before upgrading to the Phantom Guide. The Phantom is a warmer boot mainly due to the built-in gaiter. The gaiter prevents snow and ice from accumulating on top of the boot (laces love trapping wet snow!) and the extra layer of fabric over top of everything creates an air pocket that stays quite warm. Gaiters are not designed to be used with boots that have a built-in gaiter, so if you really insist on using gaiters the Phantom may not be for you. Finally, you mention hiking a lot and this is where the Mont Blanc Pro (NOT the regular Mont Blanc) shines. The last is incredibly comfortable for walking in. I realize this throws another boot into the mix but from the sounds of it, the MB Pro might fit your needs ideally.

I've been lurking on MP for a while, now, but your post was the one that finally made me sign up.

I'm in a similar position to Dave Dillon - I've got a pair of Vasque Snowburbans and am looking to upgrade to a pair of mountaineering boots for climbing/hiking in the northeast (Adirondacks, NH, etc.) and--with luck--the pacific northwest later this year. I have yet to try any boots on, however, and had sort of discarded the thought of the Mont Blanc Pros until you mentioned their hiking ability and piqued my interest like crazy. Can you say anything more about this characteristic? If you have the experience with other boots, can you compare their hiking traits to those of the Nepal Evo and/or Cube? Due to the Mont Blanc Pro's fairly recent introduction to the market, there does not seem to be a lot of people with hands-on experience with them.

Thanks for any insight you can offer!

Duncan Schouten wrote: I've been lurking on MP for a while, now, but your post was the one that finally made me sign up. I'm in a similar position to Dave Dillon - I've got a pair of Vasque Snowburbans and am looking to upgrade to a pair of mountaineering boots for climbing/hiking in the northeast (Adirondacks, NH, etc.) and--with luck--the pacific northwest later this year. I have yet to try any boots on, however, and had sort of discarded the thought of the Mont Blanc Pros until you mentioned their hiking ability and piqued my interest like crazy. Can you say anything more about this characteristic? If you have the experience with other boots, can you compare their hiking traits to those of the Nepal Evo and/or Cube? Due to the Mont Blanc Pro's fairly recent introduction to the market, there does not seem to be a lot of people with hands-on experiesole with them. Thanks for any insight you can offer!

We're almost in the exact same position! I currently hike in Vasque Snowburbans. I love them but I really want a stiffer sole for crampons and more protection above treeline. Interesing thoughts about the Mont Blanc Pro... I thought the Mont Blanc walked pretty well.

Dave Dillon wrote: We're almost in the exact same position! I currently hike in Vasque Snowburbans. I love them but I really want a stiffer sole for crampons and more protection above treeline. Interesing thoughts about the Mont Blanc Pro... I thought the Mont Blanc walked pretty well.

Yeah, when I saw your post about wanting to upgrade from Snowburbans I had a chuckle at the familiarity of your position. I quite like my Vasque boots, but I got them too small (by how much I don't know, but at least a half size if not more... oh god, my poor toes) and I figure that if I'm going to be buying another pair of boots, I'd rather just go for a proper mountaineering boot since glacier travel and at least low-grade ice climbing is almost certainly in my future and I can only hold out for so long. That said, most of what I do right now is on the winter hiking side of the spectrum, so a boot that offers the stiffness necessary for crampons while still walking well would be perfect. That's where RafalA's post comes in, speaking his perfumed words about the hiking abilities of the Mont Blanc Pro and all of a sudden those boots they seem really interesting.

Dave, did you get your Scarpas from REI/EMS or some other similar place with a solid return/exchange policy? As I've so painfully learned, a boot that feels a-okay in the store might take on a whole other set of problems once you point it downhill for a couple hours, so that's why I'm likely going to pay out the nose for a new pair of boots from one of these places - just to be able to exchange it if I go out and find that the sizing is wrong.

I bought mine from amazon. Since no one can really beat Amazon's return policy. I purchased 4 pairs of boots. Two Mont Blancs and Two Phantom Guides. I have a wider foot and I knew I fit into Charmoz pros so I went Scarpa brand. I don't plan on abusing the boots but I have been trying to wear them as much as possible out in the cold, edging, flexing, bashing toes... Etc...

Unless your wearing doubles, i.e.: Phantom 6000s or Spantiks, mountaineering boots will not keep your feet warmer for hiking. I hike and climb ice/alpine in the Adirondacks and have the Scarpa Phantom 6000s. The Phantom Guide is a single boot designed for vertical ice. Scarpa didn't design this boot for excessive warmth for hiking comfort.

I highly discourage your pursuit for winter hiking boots by purchasing single ice/mountaineering boots. They are not really designed for that purpose. They are built with extremely rigid soles made for wearing crampons. The purpose of this is to not bend and snap the center bar of the crampons. They're made to wear crampons all day, not just above tree line or on certain sections of a hike.

I've also owned and used the Phantom Guides. Due to the brutally cold temps here in upstate New York and across New England, I had to switch to double boots for ice/alpine two years ago. The Phantom Guides are a great boot, but just not warm enough on belays and single digit climbs.

When I hike, I use the Merrell Norsehund Alpha's. They're a double winter hiking boot. It allows me to remove the inner boot for drying purposes. They are extremely warm and I've never had a problem strapping a snowshoe or trail crampon to them.

Even if you had you eye on a pair of double boots for winter mountain hiking, I highly discourage you from using them for that purpose. They're just not made for it and you're feet will pay the price :-).

The Phantom Guides come with they're own "gaiter" and they aren't really meant to be worn with an external gaiter. The whole purpose of the new designs is to get rid of gaiters like the Croc. They add weight and don't allow your lower leg/feet to ventilate. This produces more sweat and the risk of blisters.

Best of luck!

AlpineIce wrote:Unless your wearing doubles, i.e.: Phantom 6000s or Spantiks, mountaineering boots will not keep your feet warmer for hiking. I hike and climb ice/alpine in the Adirondacks and have the Scarpa Phantom 6000s. The Phantom Guide is a single boot designed for vertical ice. Scarpa didn't design this boot for excessive warmth for hiking comfort. I highly discourage your pursuit for winter hiking boots by purchasing single ice/mountaineering boots. They are not really designed for that purpose. They are built with extremely rigid soles made for wearing crampons. The purpose of this is to not bend and snap the center bar of the crampons. They're made to wear crampons all day, not just above tree line or on certain sections of a hike. I've also owned and used the Phantom Guides. Due to the brutally cold temps here in upstate New York and across New England, I had to switch to double boots for ice/alpine two years ago. The Phantom Guides are a great boot, but just not warm enough on belays and single digit climbs. When I hike, I use the Merrell Norsehund Alpha's. They're a double winter hiking boot. It allows me to remove the inner boot for drying purposes. They are extremely warm and I've never had a problem strapping a snowshoe or trail crampon to them. Even if you had you eye on a pair of double boots for winter mountain hiking, I highly discourage you from using them for that purpose. They're just not made for it and you're feet will pay the price :-). The Phantom Guides come with they're own "gaiter" and they aren't really meant to be worn with an external gaiter. The whole purpose of the new designs is to get rid of gaiters like the Croc. They add weight and don't allow your lower leg/feet to ventilate. This produces more sweat and the risk of blisters. Best of luck!

Thanks for your opinion... You bring up some good points. It seems like a gray area in the whites. I constantly see people wearing double boots and single Nepal Evo / Mont blanc type boots in New Hampshire. Partially due to some very steep sections of trail and the extremely cold temperatures. For instance EMS schools in North Conway demands all participants wear double plastic boots for a Mt Washington ascent up a fairly easy route. Their guides all wear La Sportiva Baturas or phantoms.

I currently hike in Vasque Snowburbans. They're warm enough even below zero. Im just always annoyed at the soft sole when I hit the steep stuff and when I put my crampons on.

Dave Dillon wrote: Thanks for your opinion... You bring up some good points. It seems like a gray area in the whites. I constantly see people wearing double boots and single Nepal Evo / Mont blanc type boots in New Hampshire. Partially due to some very steep sections of trail and the extremely cold temperatures. For instance EMS schools in North Conway demands all participants wear double plastic boots for a Mt Washington ascent up a fairly easy route. Their guides all wear La Sportiva Baturas or phantoms. I currently hike in Vasque Snowburbans. They're warm enough even below zero. Im just always annoyed at the soft sole when I hit the steep stuff and when I put my crampons on.

Lots of Mont Blancs and Nepal Evos around North Conway. I'd say they are definitely the two most popular boots in the winter.

I actually bought my Mont Blancs after demoing a pair for a Mt. Washington ascent and some ice climbing.

The Mont Blancs seem warm to me and I just wear them with a thick smartwool sock. I have a mixture of hunting, hiking, and trekking socks from SW and they are all fine.

It was single digits and teens when I was up there this month and I had no trouble with the cold, even when standing around. The longest approach was 1.5-2 miles but I just leave the lacing loose around the ankle on the Mont Blancs then tighten up when I'm putting on crampons.

They're great for plowing through snow, plunging downhill, and climbing the odd rock spot. I have really enjoyed my pair and the only downside is the weight. For summer mountaineering I carry them on my pack and push a lightweight trail shoe as far as I can before swapping out.

As a guy who just spent the last week ice climbing, hiking and camping in the Dacks in bellow freezing temps, I would recomend nepals or montblancs only for technical ice climbs and at most single day hikes. My feet and other extremities usually run warm but I experienced hard frost nip/slight frost bite last week in nepal cubes. Double boots are preferable if you're doing more than one day things. Totally worth the weight and feeling in you're toes. Extended temperatures at 9-(-20) is not what those single boots were made for. Trust me. Still can't fully feel my toes a week after!

I have to say, for the love of god, don't get double plastic boots. They are heavy and clunky and make you feel like a damn robot.
I ice climb in Mont Blancs but I would NEVER hike in them. If you a not putting on rigid crampons, DO NOT buy boots with a fully rigid sole.

Also on warmth:
A key key KEY issue on how warm your feet stay is how much you are MOVING. That is the reason ice boots can be thin (relatively). Warmth also has a lot to do with fit and blood flow. You might be surprised to find that loosening the laces might warm up your feet sometimes. For sizing, err on the bigger side. There is a ton on this subject. That's just the big bullet points.

Well I tested out the guides on a recent Mt. Washington (NH) Trip. They were in fact warm enough... but I could see them getting cold at belay on a climbing route. Might look into picking up a pair of the 6000's if the price is right!

At least they look cool in pictures.