placing an auto block

similar post to my first but I still have questions about the auto block and its placement. Most instruction says to "place it on the leg loop" but i have a BD harness with sliding adjustments on the leg loops and I have read that that can be an issue. My thought was to attach the carabiner above the buckles just under the sewn part of the loop .... slightly below were you thread the rope on the lower loop. I have included photos showing the two attachment points and i am hoping for community feed back. I know i "can" attach it to the belay loop and extend my belay device on a sling but i would rather not. Thanks for the input.

Jim

place it here

or place it here

People usually just hook it to the leg loop, like your second picture shows. I don't see an advantage to attaching as shown in picture #1.

What ever you do, make you you test it before hand with a similar diameter rope. It is really easy to mess it up and have the autoblock not engage.

This guy had an autoblock....
youtube.com/watch?v=3T4FT2S…

also, there is a search function on mp its always in top right hand corner of the page. Just saying....

You can also girth hitch a 2' runner to your belay loop and put your device at the end of the runner. Then you can have the autoblock come right off the belay loop.

That is actually my preferred method.

jim202000 wrote: I know i "can" attach it to the belay loop and extend my belay device on a sling but i would rather not. Thanks for the input. Jim

I'm with Corey, extend the rap & put the back up on the belay loop. It works quite nicely. Is there a reason you prefer not to (just curious)?

Rappel back up set up

The speed buckle can loosen under pull

Even if it doesnt com apart, it can loosen enough that the autoblock can jam against the ATC causing failure of the backup

Clip the inside of the leg loop or extend the rap and put the autoblock on the belay loop

blog.alpineinstitute.com/20…

;)

That YouTube video is a good lesson on how to kill yourself. God! Only idiots hang themselves off cliffs with limited knowledge and feel ok with their position. Wet? Single rope? Let go of the break? I half think the fall was planned.

Here's another vote for extending and autoblock on the belay loop. I feel like the leg is too close to the device and in a fall has too much of a chance of binding in the device and failing as a lock.

I have a BD harness like that one and I just clip it on the leg loop like photo #2. In regards to why not just extend the belay device as asked by a few people, it's because that is one extra step to set up the rappel, more gear to carry up the climb, etc. It's simply faster to not, and I think if your autoblock is short enough the chances of it catching on the belay device are fairly small (though I admit it is possible). For rapping off everyday sport routes I like to keep it simple/quick.

thanks for the input....

As for not using the search bar,I wanted to include photos for direct feedback.

The reason I said I did not want to extend my repel is because raping with just an ATC and a locking biner connected to my belay loop is what I know and am comfortable with. I feel like if I over complicate the auto block then I will be less likely to use it. It will become something where I think "this looks like a tough rap ... it should set up the auto block". I am looking for a set up i can comfortably incorporate into everyday climbing for safety, without adding too many additional steps. The auto bock connected to the leg loop seemed to fit that nicely.

thanks again
Jim

In terms of your two placement options, I agree that it probably doesn't matter much.

Just keep in mind that style of autoblock will likely fail if you flip over. Personally, I either don't use one at all (short rap, no chance of rope issues, etc.) or I rig the AMGA-approved extension method like what Lisa posted. I'm just not convinced the middle ground offers that much more safety.

Another vote to extend your rappel with a 2 ft runner and auto block or prussic off the belay loop not the leg loop.

An autoblock tied to your leg loop will fail when you most need it.

Either do an autoblock properly or don't do it at all. Extend it or don't use it.

patto wrote:An autoblock tied to your leg loop will fail when you most need it. Either do an autoblock properly or don't do it at all. Extend it or don't use it.

Maybe with your harness...

Hey Jim,
Kudos to you for seeking out the knowledge to incorporate the best practice for safe rappelling. It's understandable that you might feel uncomfortable with a different method than that which you are used to. Especially for rappel. My advice to you would be to go on the AMGA site and seek out a local guide to get out to a local crag with. They will be able to show you the proper implementation of the technique into your repertoire, referenced in the photo that Lisa posted. The only additional step involved would be girth hitching a sling to your harness(unless you already have a PAC). You'll be glad you made the change the first time you encounter a knot on a long rap and are able to deal with it with ease.

I used to have the same BD harness. I usually extend my rappel with a double length sling basketed to my hard points and a friction hitch on my belay loop. One time I rappelled with my friction hitch clipped to my leg loop as you have it in photo #2. I weighted the system mid-rappel to work on a stuck piece and broke the plastic sliding buckle. It was sharp so I eventually broke it off and had a fixed leg loop size.
Just my $.02

And good on you for protecting yourself on rappel. Too many people are far to casual about it and the statistics reflect that.

I love it. Do it this way or not at all. Do it the amga way or die. Hire a guide to teach you. Bla bla bla. If your brain is functioning and you are taking the utmost responsibility for yourself (and it sounds like you are) photo 2 is just fine. Of course ensure your cord cannot interfere with your device and vice versa and your leg loop is suitable (no plastic buckles etc). The most simple way is usually best.

Amga must come up with the most foolproof way to reduce the chances of failure due improper use. Thousands of rappels have been done with photo two method safely. One person uses a cord too long for the job and had a failure = we all most do it different now! I think not.

I always use a 240 cm runner to extend my belay device so that no matter how long my autoblock is there is NO way it could ever contact the belay device. This allows me to use a Klemheist hitch with a full 23 wraps, which I consider the minimum safe number. Anything less and.....YERR GUNNA DIE!

Gunkiemike wrote: Maybe with your harness...

With any harness.

Greg D wrote:Of course ensure your cord cannot interfere with your device and vice versa and your leg loop is suitable (no plastic buckles etc).

Except that it is not possible to ensure that a leg loop attached auto block cannot interfere with the device if your device is simply attached to your belay loop.

Greg D wrote:Thousands of rappels have been done with photo two method safely. One person uses a cord too long for the job and had a failure = we all most do it different now! I think not.

And thousands of rappels have been done safely with no backup.

What is confusing is a desire to use a safety backup that is prone to failure especially at times when you need it most.

patto wrote: What is confusing is a desire to use a safety backup that is prone to failure especially at times when you need it most.

Wtf are you talking about? Prone to failure, my Prussik is gonna fail, because its on my leg? No

I clicked this thread because I knew it'd be a shitshow. Its everyone opinion, and this one's a big conflict.

Greg D said it best, be aware, sounds like you are.

I use a runner to extend and Prussik on leg loop.

patto wrote: With any harness. Except that it is not possible to ensure that a leg loop attached auto block cannot interfere with the device if your device is simply attached to your bla bla bla.

I couldn't say for sure why you can't tell. But most climbers can.