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The Subway - Zion National Park, Need some advice

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Jeff T · · Las vegas · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 175

How's it going everyone.

I'm planning a trip to do the Subway in Zion in the beginning of April. We already have the permits and have hiked the Narrows and Angel's Landing before. Is there any advice that I should know before I plan out the trip? I have never been canyoneering nor has anyone in my group. I have experience in trad and sport climbing and have experience in rappels as well. Any help would be appreciated (bolted raps? hard to find the trail? etc.)!

Cheers

Austin Baird · · SLC, Utah · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 95

Ask this question at bogley.com and canyoncollective.com. You'll get better responses.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Austin Baird wrote:Ask this question at bogley.com and canyoncollective.com. You'll get better responses.
+1

I think you will want wetsuits, maybe even dry suits, assuming this is a good idea at all.
Danger-Russ Gordon · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 590

If you have a group of new canyoneers, start early, it will take a full day if you want to enjoy it

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

I posted this earlier today in the "First time in Zion" thread:

The Subway is not a beginner trip, it's a long day, and there are significant route-finding challenges.

NOTE: these comments and the excerpts reproduced lower down refer to the full "Subway from the Top" route. There is a non-technical bottom-up version that is significantly easier, but still requires a permit.

From: citrusmilo.com/zionguide/lower...

"If you want to avoid the swimming and rappelling of the Subway "top-down" route but you still want to see some of the beauty of the Subway, you can hike up the Left Fork from the "bottom." Starting and ending at the Left Fork Trailhead (roughly 8.2 miles up the Kolob Terrace Road from the town of Virgin), this route is a completely non-technical hike up the Left Fork of North Creek to the Subway section (almost 3.3 miles one way). The complete hike may take anywhere between 5 to 9 hours and is a full day in some beautiful remote scenery."

Read:
Entry in CanyoneeringUSA:
http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/technical/the-subway-zion-top-down/

NPS page about The Subway
http://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/thesubway.htm

Read the related Subway links on the left, too.

From the canyoneeringusa entry:
Spring - In Zion, spring occurs sometime in March, April, May or June. For several weeks in that time period, the basin feeding The Subway melts off and The Subway floods, with too much water for safe passage. There is no gauge on the stream so water level information is not available remotely. Winter conditions may apply, and access to the trailhead might be blocked with snow. The route can be difficult to follow if obscured by snow. Snow and ice in the canyon can make downstream travel difficult or impossible! The red ledges at the bottom of The Subway can be slabs of ice requiring crampons.

The Subway is a strenuous and demanding backcountry hike with rappels and swims. Good navigational skills and a map are required - straying into the more difficult terrain on either side of the approach trail, or missing the exit trail, is hazardous. There are three short drops that most people will want a rope for. Folks should know how to rappel, and how to set up and use conspicuous anchors. For the swims, you will need drybags for your gear, and if it is not stinking hot out, you might want a wetsuit.

In the spring of 2011, the melt-off was especially slow, and many parties entered the canyon unprepared for the conditions present, expecting summer conditions despite plain evidence to the contrary. The Backcountry Desk cannot continuously assess conditions in the canyon, so it is up to each party to make a decision, when they arrive at the canyon bottom. ANY flow in the canyon at this point indicates serious Class C technical canyoneering conditions, and parties without sufficient knowledge, experience and equipment will be putting their own, and rescuer's, lives at risk by continuing forward when there is flow in the canyon. Proceeding downcanyon in the face of clear evidence that conditions are beyond your competence is foolish, and likely to result in injury, rescue and a citation for endangering others.

To add another issue, the NPS says:
Note: The Kolob Terrace Road that leads to both entry points of the Left Fork (Subway) will be undergoing major reconstruction from March through the end of October. Three-hour blocks of closures will begin March 2, 2015. Plan accordingly.

While we're at it:
http://www.nps.gov/zion/parknews/fatalfallsubway.htm

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54933651-78/canyon-hosobuchi-park-zion.html.csp

http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway2.htm

matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155
Jeff T wrote: Any help would be appreciated (bolted raps? hard to find the trail? etc.)! Cheers
I did the subway in low flow and it was really easy. However, I have heard it can be challenging in higher flow. The trail is pretty straight forward, just follow the cairns and get a good beta pictures. All of the rappels are bolted and they are very short.

Jeff T wrote: Is there any advice that I should know before I plan out the trip? I have never been canyoneering nor has anyone in my group.
You might just want to do a canyon beforehand. If you are still in SD there are a bunch in your area. Check it out:
dankat.com/socal/front.htm
Louis Eubank · · Portland, ME · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 181
matt c. wrote: I did the subway in low flow and it was really easy. However, I have heard it can be challenging in higher flow.
"It's easy at x flow" is how people die in sandstone canyons, or even worse, require others to come get them. Unlike limestone, sandstone slot canyons change drastically at pathetically small differences in water flow. Imlay is a breeze at certain water levels (Heaps is always a bit stiff). My 2 cents - get some experience on easier canyons. Head over to Escalante and you can get a bunch of pothole escape technique dialed in Neon Canyon, bridging/stemming/human anchor in Ringtail. As Austin said, head over to canyoneering-specific sites for better beta.

Also, "I have experience in trad and sport climbing and have experience in rappels as well" Que es? I had experience in rappels after my first time. Tommy Caldwell has experience in trad and sport climbing. I'm not saying you don't have the technique necessary, but I'm not saying you do. If you can't confidently rig anchors, deal with stuck ropes on rappel, and other very basic techniques, you really don't belong leading a group through a canyon. It's fine if you get yourself hypothermic/hurt/killed, it's when you lead trusting others that really bad juju occurs.

I'm not trying to piss on your parade, but my experiences in SAR & now the hospital have caused me to wish many times that someone said "What the hell are you thinking? Get some technique first".
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

We?? So how many are in your group? You say none have done any canyoneering but have they done any rappelling, hours of scrambling around? Often larger groups are more of hazard than a smaller.

The trail has cairns but I have also seen people totally miss the entrance. In April the water will bone chilling cold. You will not get into the sun until you are past the subway proper. What gets most people are little things here and there. The raps may only be 10 feet but it is in a slot with running water thus awkward. Often there is a lot of standing around waiting and people get cold after a swim. It is also a long day.

IMHO when doing a wet canyon that time of year it really helps to have at least one person who knows WTF they are doing. Otherwise best to stick to dry canyons or wait until later in the year.

pkeds · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 30

I agree with many of the points on here. Bring a wetsuit. I did it last april and was very happy i brought it. Start early, its a long day. Especially cause sometime t-storms develop in the afternoon further north. There are a lot of cairns but they can be easy to miss. I do not recommend bottom up, i think you miss so much of the beauty and fun of this canyon.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
pkeds wrote:I do not recommend bottom up, i think you miss so much of the beauty and fun of this canyon.
Yes, but you also miss the mandatory swims in frigid water and the wet rappels!
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Brassmonkey wrote:I did the subway hike a couple of summers ago as my (gasp) first canyon. I was in the park by myself and was unable to find a climbing partner, so on a whim I asked the rangers if there were any permits available that day and there was one permit. I drove up, parked at the end, hitch-hiked to the start and did the hike by myself. I did encounter some groups but the routefinding was straightforward and the rappels were bolted and extremely simple (and short). 2 of them I simply lowered myself hand over hand down the rope. I'm not saying its a joke but I found it to be very low key. I'm sure in heavy cold water that it is and can be very different. I would get a wet suit for April, but if the rangers say you are good to go that day flow wise, go for it.
April is very different than summer.
Routefinding is straightforward - assuming you stay on the route and not like the woman who missed the hard right turn to the 4th class downclimb and slipped off a 100' cliff.
The rangers will not necessarily know the flow since there is no flow gauge - you have to assess it on-site.
Newbies have done it as their first canyon with no problems. Experienced people have died there. Generally, the recommendation is to do an easier technical canyon first.
hank moon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 0
Austin Baird wrote:Ask this question at bogley.com and canyoncollective.com. You'll get better responses.
+2

A cautionary tale from April 2011, with high flow.

climb-utah.com/Zion/subway2…

Maybe not a concern this year, as I *hear* the snowpack is low (good to verify that, along with water flow and weather conditions at trip time). Not a good idea to go at high flow with no canyoneering experience.

Best available subway beta:

canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zi…
Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711
hank moon wrote:Best available subway beta: canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zi…
That blue whales bigger brother:

bluugnome.com/cyn_route/zio…
Jeff T · · Las vegas · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 175

Thanks for all the responses, you guys have been a big help! I will definitely be seeking further instruction on basic canyoneering and will assess my groups skill level and see what they're comfortable with. The last thing I want is to put them in danger by blindly going into this canyon.

Darin Berdinka · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 267

Hard to imagine an easier "technical" canyon than the top down subway. Go for it. Plenty of people do that as their first canyon. Well below normal snowpack will in all likelyhood mean you don't need to worry about an abnormally high flow experience.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Darin Berdinka wrote:Hard to imagine an easier "technical" canyon than the top down subway. Go for it. Plenty of people do that as their first canyon. Well below normal snowpack will in all likelyhood mean you don't need to worry about an abnormally high flow experience.
When the OP, who is the ostensible leader, says "I have never been canyoneering nor has anyone in my group.", it should raise serious caution flags that argue against "Go for it" as a first canyon.

People have died in that canyon (see links above) because they didn't know what they were doing. At least in this case the OP has climbing experience that will certainly help and elevates above being totally clueless noobs.

Not saying they shouldn't go, but should be aware of what it might entail, especially at the beginning of April.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern Utah Deserts
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