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My rack: too much or not enough?

Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989
Bill M wrote:I would not mix the BD and Metolius cams. I find it to confusing to keep track of what's left on my rack. I like to carry doubles in the bd 0.5 to 2 sizes when climbing near my limit.
This is one of those scenarios where color-coded biners work really well. Just pick a coloring convention (I went with old-style Black Diamond Camalots) and rack everything according to that. Thus, when I need to find a big-hands piece, I look for the blue carabiners towards the rear of my rack. If I need a finger-stack piece, I look for purple towards the front. If I need my second largest size cam, I reach for red.

There are certainly nuances (sometimes, that new #5 C4 fits a little better than #4.5 camalot, or a #3 friend is clearly better than a #2 C4) but I get the versatility of mixing it up, without the confusion.
Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 81

+1 for mixing Metolius and BD. They fit and place differently. Like Dylan B., I prefer the "smaller ranges means more cams" of Metolius. Over your career, you'll have to climb with other people's gear eventually anyway, so now's as good a time as ever to start learning the color sizes of the most popular cams.

But, yeah, I'd go with X4's over C4's if they're in the budget.

Mathias wrote:It's either than my belayer is untested or significantly lighter than me (like 70lbs), which makes me nervous.
Thread drift...

Tie those light belayers down ;-). On the ground, anchor them to a tree, a rock, a root... On multipitch, some would argue that it's always a good practice to have an upward directional on a multipitch anchor anyway... But for just anchoring a belayer you can place a piece to anchor them if there's not a natural tiedown nearby.
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

this is what you own..not carry ..right ?

I'll get started by saying that you have way to many slinngs and too few loose biners

2 ccordalettes and 6 locker s???why ? try zero and one

I'm not a big fans of colored biners either..get to know what you carry and where you put it

Nicholas Patterson · · Sheridan, WY · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 55

sounds like you're on the right track frodo...

i'd agree that C4's are indispensable; i carry doubles from .3 - 2 in most multi-pitch scenarios. 'pending the route, i might tack on a #3 or two, maybe even a #4.

my rivendell (a.k.a. Lumpy) rack goes with C4 doubles, .3 - 2; C3 doubles, 0 - 2; stoppers #6 - #10; eight or ten shoulder length dyneema runners (half with two biners, half with one); two 6mil cords on 1 locker; 6 spare lockers; and some halflings' leaf which smokes fine in a #9 or #10 stopper.

if i were walking into mordor (a.k.a. ELDO), i'd toss doubles of the three largest C3's and some small end metolius TCU's in my pack...think 'hair city'

and i usually carry a set of bd nuts (#6 - #10) in a varied assortment; though again, mordor may use some smaller bits (#4 & #5).

when i'm in the shire (a.k.a. East faces of Flatirons), i like to clang my way up with big hexes and nuts, no cammage a'tall.

learn to leave behind what you don't need. cams rack with a biner, so runners for cams will only need one spare to clip to the rope. learn to stack nuts. learn to use cams passively. learn to hook horns you can't girth hitch (toss a runner over one and hang a weight like a full water bottle off of it to keep it down); then clip it to the rope.

and yes, go aid climbing. nothing provides more intimate knowledge of gear placement or faith in gear than hanging off of 'em piece by piece.

and for fuck all, don't forget to climb mate. don't place gear when you should be climbing. place gear when it's safe and prudent, then back to the business, aye!

cheers!

Rob WardenSpaceLizard · · las Vegans, the cosmic void · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 130

if your chugging up the 8's Zion is a pretty limiting place. most racks have a 5 and 6 cam. double set of most things. a triple set is most common rack with a 5 and 6.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

Do folks really carry ten shoulder length slings at once ??? really ?

Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433
john strand wrote:Do folks really carry ten shoulder length slings at once ??? really ?
notice the dude who said that didn't mention any quickdraws, so he's saving one biner (utilizing the racking biner) for half his clips
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

I'm trying to think of a time when more than 4 slings 6 qd and maybe 6 free biners being used on a pitch

Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433
Tom Sherman wrote: notice the dude who said that didn't mention any quickdraws, so he's saving one biner (utilizing the racking biner) for half his clips
in addition to climbs where you're slinging trees, slinging horns, not travelling into R/X terrain, and i don't know what else

sorry I shouldn't talk I don't have that much trad exp. just bored at work, but yeah he's talking 10 clips, thats the same as your mentioning
Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

I would want to double up on the finger>hands sized stuff. Maybe choose a wider range cam like the C4's or even a Link Cam. Were I in your shoes. I would probably throw in two C4's, the #.75 & #1. Otherwise that rack should cover most stuff IMO. Good luck.

Andy Whicker · · Ogden, UT · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 31

Standard BD rack is 0.3 to 3

I use the 0.2 quite a bit too.

I would double on .3 to 2 BD sizes. Not sure what that means for Metolius. I personally don't run into many double BD #3 routes, but maybe I'm drawn to finger cracks. I like 4 lobes on my cams.. sometimes you only get two lobes in the crack and the extra lobe is insurance when climbing sandstone.

I have a set of tri cams and use them very rarely, in fact they are a running joke as I'm the only guy that has them. I'm always joking 'You sure you don't need any tri cams cuz I got some tri cams!' Surprised you have two sets.

Cheers,

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

"I'm trying to think of a time when more than 4 slings 6 qd and maybe 6 free biners being used on a pitch."

Well, a 100' pitch, a piece every 3' = ~33 pieces. That's my standard. What? You don't carry 30 draws/slings? For the missing 3 draws I run it out.

Andy Whicker · · Ogden, UT · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 31
teece303 wrote:...For the missing 3 draws I run it out.
Ballsy. Someday you're gonna fall... bad.
Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989
john strand wrote:I'm trying to think of a time when more than 4 slings 6 qd and maybe 6 free biners being used on a pitch
On a long pitch that isn't a perfect splitter? I rarely carry proper quickdraws on routes without a bunch of bolts anymore, because, if I need to extend a piece, I probably need to extend a piece quite a ways. And on the rare occasion where I don't, I have a blend of tripled and over-the-shoulder runners, so I'm not married to just one size. When I know I'll need slings, I tend to carry between 8 and 12 of them (including doubles), plus 2-3 lockers and 1 cordolette. Not because I can't make the anchor with the rope, but because I need that 20' loop for something more often than not.
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

I'm in the same boat (building a rack) and it sounds like you have a pretty damn good rack. i would suggest paying attention to which size cams you use the most and double up on those sizes with a different brand (BD or WC would be my suggestions). you have more than enough passive pro so save the money from the 2nd set of hexes and use it for doubles on cams. i have a set of hexes and i wish i hadn't got them because they have been replaced by tricams and cams. that being said, i do love the clanking sound of them. i love my tri-cams and my ideal set of tricams would be .125-2 with an extra pink and red. i have .25-2 and an extra red and i rarely use the brown and blue/purple. so if you end up selling any extra gear i would suggest the 2nd brown and blue tricams.
if you climb in a place with horizontals you'll love tricams because they are (once you learn) easy to place one handed and allow you to save your cams for vertical cracks. they're also a good replacement for cams when you are trying to save weight ie alpine

Jeremy Riesberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 5

Some of my partners don't even use passive gear anymore. I would recommend ditching the 2nd hexes for a set of BD .5-3 cams. I don't own hexes anymore. Cams are faster to place and faster to clean. Learn to place them well, and the tricks to cleaning them.

Unless I have the gear dailed in for a route, I bring a double set of cams and a set of nuts. Cams are heavy sure, but once you climb harder shit you will appreciate the speed and ease of one hand placements.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

All the proficient leaders I know have a set of double cams. Maybe not all the same brand, but doubles in each approximate size. If they want to leave some behind (at the base of the climb), they do.

By the time you use three at one trad anchor and three at the next, you're down to six, or so, to lead the pitch, if you only have singles. Get doubles! More versatile than passive pro.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

So I'm going to need more cams at some point or to combine racks with my partner (usually an option).

I have a lot of slings, hopefully more than I need. I like to keep two biners on each because then I don't have to worry about whether I'm grabbing a sling with one (to use with a cam) or two (for nuts or tricams). The hexes have slings on them and each has its own biner, but as I can't be sure I'm going to use them, I don't count them. The reason I say 'hopefully more than I need' is that I did combine two pitches in Eldo and had 12 slings. I ran out of them over 180'. Had it not been for a bad decision on my part to run out a 15-20' section, I wouldn't have had enough for the last couple pieces I put in, on what was the hardest section of the route for me. I placed cams there (I was using someone else's rack) and so didn't NEED slings, but I like to extend cams anyway, just to avoid walking. Am I placing too much gear? Well maybe, but I'm still pretty new and I'd rather be safe than not. Every pitch I learn something new at this point. I will consider the idea of carrying slings with one biner and loose spares though.

I do like the tricams and the hexes. The DMM torque nuts (the hexes I use) are quite versatile from what I've experienced, but there are only 4 in a set. I have two sets of tricams because I like how they work, and I have used the doubles at times. If I can get a good stance, I'll try and place passive pro first. This may become much less possible as I move up in the grades, but so far (limited experience), it's working well. I originally bought the cams for times when I just can't get a good enough stance to take the extra time to place passive pro, or when passive pro just isn't going to work. Call me crazy but I enjoy placing passive pro almost as much as I like climbing. I guess I just like geometry and mechanics. I suppose if/when I stop using the passive stuff, I'll stop carrying it.

As far as Zion goes, I took a long look at the routes and there really isn't that much under 5.10. But it's not just a climbing road trip, so we'll do what we can, relax a bit and move on to the next place. There is at least some stuff we're interested in and won't get into trouble climbing (probably).

Oh, the cordelettes and lockers. Well, I'm not going to carry all of that all the time, but as I learned how to use a cordelette for anchors, it's now my go-to method. One for the lower anchor and one for the upper anchor. The lockers are really there just in case I need them (and for a master point, depending on what's going on), but if I use a nut or a tricam, rather than pull a wiregate off a draw, I can just use a locker. I'm still figuring all this out ..... obviously. Though, if I have slings with a single wiregate and then loose ones, that could eliminate the reason for so many lockers.

I've got some thinking to do. But I do at least know how I like to rack now. Active weak side, passive strong side, split the draws half on each side. So I've got one thing figured out. :D

Kevin Neville · · Oconomowoc, WI · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 15

When getting a second set of cams, consider offsets for the small sizes. I got Metolius 00/0 thru 3/4 a couple of years ago, and can't believe I climbed for so long without them. Once in a while you might prefer a second symmetric piece in a particular size, but generally there's also a spot where the offset will be fine. Conversely, there are often spots where an offset is just better. Particularly cracks that constrict downwards but flare somewhat outwards; but also all sorts of other funky placements.

I find the 3/4 to be the least useful, and that one I'm kind of "meh" on. The 2/3 the next least useful, but I'd still recommend it. And the smallest three are gold.

Brent Butcher · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 275
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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